UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

[Jay]

Kptw, I agree with most of what you are saying. This is why most preachers have started preaching against the viewing of such things. However, I recently heard an influenial 'Christian' speaker mention that he watched a program that contained lessons of a dubious moral character. I remain convinced that the elders were correct to institute the ban against movies, television, and Hollywood style productions. Television and movies are much worse than they were at the time of the ban. Why do we need to be revisiting this issue now?

Are we willing to settle for the slop that passes for mainstream 'christian' ntertainment? I have to be careful about which Christian authors I read any more.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

The Internet and TV are the same you have to use filters and parental blocks in my opinion,you can go to a TV website and stream content on a PC the same content as on a TV..Glad they passed it. Makes no since to be able to have internet and PC's and smartphones,but not be able to watch TV...Hopefully other things will change in the future. Got to let the old landmarks go, theres a new generation coming up and its time for change...

Any more... people can freely watch television over the internet. So... if you have access to the internet in your home... you have free access to television in your home. The box or technical medium isn't the issue... it's the programming.

So... the internet is like "Television Plus".

[Aquila]

I think that the postion of various human organizations put men in the position of "preaching against something" and now... well... they are made to look inconsistent. As with all failed human teaching... the minister risks losing creditability in the eyes of the congregation. I mean, many will ask, "Well pastor, did God speak to you on this or not???" I can see where this would be challenging for many preachers. And humbling to the whole. Perhaps that was God's intention? I don't know...

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

So, let's go back and compare TV to the internet:

1. You say there are good websites and bad websites. Well, there are good channels and bad channels on TV. You have to control what you watch.

2. You say TV and movies are a waste of time and money. Well, the time you spend on the internet could also be keeping you from "doing the work of the Lord". And, I don't know about you, but the monthly charge for internet access is fairly pricey.

3. You say there is a flaw in my argument as it pertains to TV vs. Internet. I'm not sure what it is..........

Actually I find the Internet quite useful in "doing the work of the Lord", I go on to different forums and manage to give my doctrinal views.

With the Internet I actually have a voice, maybe not a big voice, but I actually get to speak my mind, of course the site owners sometimes delete my posts, but others are more open minded to the Oneness message.

Even those who censor or delete my posts, find out that there are other views besides the trinity.

Also on the Internet I have NetFlix, which gives me freedom to choose what I am going to watch, and when I want to watch it without having to watch commercials and on my own schedule.

I can watch good stuff or I can watch evil stuff, the choice is really up to me, if I do not like the movie or program it takes just one click to get rid of it.

On the TV you have watch what the TV stations decide and on their own schedule.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Actually I find the Internet quite useful in "doing the work of the Lord", I go on to different forums and manage to give my doctrinal views.

With the Internet I actually have a voice, maybe not a big voice, but I actually get to speak my mind, of course the site owners sometimes delete my posts, but others are more open minded to the Oneness message.

Even those who censor or delete my posts, find out that there are other views besides the trinity.

Also on the Internet I have NetFlix, which gives me freedom to choose what I am going to watch, and when I want to watch it without having to watch commercials and on my own schedule.

I can watch good stuff or I can watch evil stuff, the choice is really up to me, if I do not like the movie or program it takes just one click to get rid of it.

On the TV you have watch what the TV stations decide and on their own schedule.

Not so....have you heard of DVR?

That's what I do...I DVR the shows I want to watch, then I can watch them on my own schedule, plus can skip the commercials, and/or any other part of the program I don't want to watch.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Jay

Kptw, I agree with most of what you are saying. This is why most preachers have started preaching against the viewing of such things. However, I recently heard an influenial 'Christian' speaker mention that he watched a program that contained lessons of a dubious moral character. I remain convinced that the elders were correct to institute the ban against movies, television, and Hollywood style productions. Television and movies are much worse than they were at the time of the ban. Why do we need to be revisiting this issue now?

Are we willing to settle for the slop that passes for mainstream 'christian' ntertainment? I have to be careful about which Christian authors I read any more.

I fully agree with you that most of what is on TV is just garbage, for years I went without TV and I do not feel I missed anything.

The problem I have with the UPCI stance on TV is that often they go to such extremes, that they made it a salvation issue.

For many of them if you watch TV, you go straight to Hell, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars.

So if you just pass by an electronics store, you have to close your eyes, for just one look at TV will send you to Hell. You better never go to Wal-mart, Sears or Target, you will see those jumbo TVs and just one look at them will send you straight to Hell.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I fully agree with you that most of what is on TV is just garbage, for years I went without TV and I do not feel I missed anything.

The problem I have with the UPCI stance on TV is that often they go to such extremes, that they made it a salvation issue.

For many of them if you watch TV, you go straight to Hell, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars.

So if you just pass by an electronics store, you have to close your eyes, for just one look at TV will send you to Hell. You better never go to Wal-mart, Sears or Target, you will see those jumbo TVs and just one look at them will send you straight to Hell.

This, I agree with......

[Evenuntodeath]

Originally Posted by PreacherME

No, I didn't know it was used for witchcraft. But I do know it was canonized at one time until someone thought it was ridiculous to have sex with angels (as Genesis states). The Ethiopian Coptic church still has Enoch canonized. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's actually included in ancient Bibles such as the bible used by Ethiopian orthodoxy. Many scholars also point to several places in the NT where the book of Enoch is quoted. Some believe that it's inspired, others don't.

Witches also use the Bible, crosses, and even some Christian hymns and liturgies.

We shouldn't rush to judgment before truly investigating something.

@Aquila do not talk to me like im a child. There was a reason why the early church fathers and the..King James Bible..translators rejected the Book of Enoch as inpired by God. Try cross-referencing the Book of Enoch with the Word of God. In chapter 1:9 of the..Book of Enoch..says that an angel named Phanuel is "set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life" ... Salvation is found ONLY in Christ Jesus.


@Preacherme you quote makeup and jewelry references only because it lines up with the man made standards of UPC. Its hilarious how pentecostals continue to grasp straws to justify all their legalism. Did you also know the book of Enoch refers also to reading and writing as abominations/sins taught by angels???? Hmmm...maybe the UPC should also add that to their long list of standards too.

You totally disregard the fact that references in the book of enoch contradicts the word of God, and is clearly written differently than the rest of the bible.

[PreacherME]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

[/B]




@Aquila do not talk to me like im a child. There was a reason why the early church fathers and the..King James Bible..translators rejected the..Book of Enoch..as inpired by God...Try cross-referencing the..Book of Enoch..with the Word of God ..In chapter 1:9 of the..Book of Enoch..says that an angel named Phanuel is "set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life" ... Salvation is found ONLY in Christ Jesus.


@Preacherme you quote makeup and jewelry references only because it lines up with the man made standards of UPC. Its hilarious how pentecostal continue to grasp straws to justify all their legalism. Did you also know the book of Enoch refers also to reading and writing as abominations/sins taught by angels???? Hmmm...maybe the UPC should also add that to their long list of standards too.

You totally disregard the fact that references in the book of enoch contradicts the word of God, is suspect because its clearly written differently than the rest of the bible.

Evenuntodeath, listen as hard as I try I know from my heart that I cannot Preach from Enoch because of the controversy. This is one reason why I struggle with the idea of preaching certain standards and this most definitely includes makeup. I have a hard time preaching against standards because of my studies; however, I do believe that makeup has its origin in fallen angels and I cannot as easily dismiss what you call suspect even though I can't preach it.

I told you on another thread that I was mixed up because I have nothing concrete. And as far as writing goes Enoch got his written portion from God. Peace my friend.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

[/B]
@Aquila do not talk to me like im a child. There was a reason why the early church fathers and the..King James Bible..translators rejected the Book of Enoch as inpired by God. Try cross-referencing the Book of Enoch with the Word of God. In chapter 1:9 of the..Book of Enoch..says that an angel named Phanuel is "set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life" ... Salvation is found ONLY in Christ Jesus.

My apologies. No offence was intended.

There were supporters of the Book of Enoch among many early church fathers. Justin Martyr for example. However, as Jewish mysticism became rampant rabbinical authorities denounced it. And when that happened, the "established church" denounced it also.

As for the angel of Phanuel... most likely the original Book of Enoch was written before the time of Christ. Therefore, the notion of specific angelic spheres of influence would follow OT fashion. It is quite possible that the angel Phanuel (and the order of angels below him) were tasked with leading and revealing the truth of JEHOVAH in deeper ways among God's people. The ministry of angels is a very mysterious reality that is only hinted about in Scripture.

Please note, the Book of Enoch was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls and dates back to around 150 B.C.

You totally disregard the fact that references in the book of enoch contradicts the word of God, and is clearly written differently than the rest of the bible.

I'd have to propose that anything in the Book of Enoch that contradicts the Cannon might be modifications that depart from the original text.

There are quotes and thoughts from the Book of Enoch in the NT. Take into consideration that the Book of Enoch is estimated to have been first written around 150 B.C. Here's a link:

http://www.stargods.org/EnochQuoted.htm

But more importantly we have a massive theological issue on this subject WITHOUT the Book of Enoch. In the NT we read...

Jude 6
The angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness, unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4
God spared not the angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

Here's the question... Both Jude and Peter write to their readers presuppositionally on this single subject. They presuppose that their readers automatically understood the sin that these angels committed. Contextual considerations pointing to this is the fact that neither Jude nor Peter offer an explanation of the "angels that sinned". Since all revelation is founded upon the Word of God... I ask... Where dose the BIBLE explain who these angels were and what sin they committed???

Within that piece of information... Jude and Peter's statements simply hang out there in a limbo in which no one knows who these angels were or what grave sin they committed.

Then, we have another theological issue.

Satan isn't bound.
Demons aren't bound.

However, these angels are bound in chains of darkness, reserved unto judgment.

Now... Why would God allow the demons and Satan himself to roam free... and yet bind these angels? What sin was so great and threatening to mankind that God would bind these angels up until the day of judgment???

Can you provide an answer from Scripture???

When we consider these things... the only possibility is Genesis 6. And please note, I've demonstrated how this can be concluded WITHOUT the Book of Enoch.