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Old 10-11-2019, 11:58 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Logos Doctrine And The UPC

The Biblical doctrine of the Logos is becoming an issue within the UPC. The following is a Facebook post by Mark August.

Mark August
Admin · 17 hrs ·
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About us

Biblical Oneness vs. Mind Word Only
Mark August..................David Bernard
Dave Robbins..................Steve Ritchie
Irvin Baxter................Jason Weatherly

The recent events involving Dave Robbins apparant involuntary teaching of Mind Word Only Theory on the "End of the Age" broadcast, which aired 10/09/19, have been very productive for the Oneness movement as a whole.

After receiving complaints voicing concerns about what Mr. Robins (co-host of the program) had inadvertently taught on the air, and after analysis of the episode, A.C.T.S. immedietly stepped into action and issued a challenge to EndTime Ministries for a full retraction, citing EndTime's long-standing teaching against Mind Word Only Theory as the foundation for inquiry.

Dave Robbins responded to the inquiry by basically stating that he may have misspoke on the issue and was unable to fully explain his exposition of John 1:1 due to time constraints.

Mr. Robbins also assured A.C.T.S. that he was in full agreement with Dr. Irvin Baxter (founder of EndTime Ministries) that Logos was originally generated in the beginning as opposed to at the incarnation.

Upon receiving communication from co-host Dave Robbins explaining the events which lead to the misunderstanding, A.C.T.S. issued an official withdrawal of the request for retraction.

The outcome of these events has shown Mark August, Dave Robbins and Dr. Irvin Baxter to be in doctrinal solidarity, unified against the Mind Word Only Theory which has been heavily promoted by popular Oneness Theologian Dr. David K. Bernard since the 1980's in the UPCI.

These recent events have propelled the diversity of Logos Doctrine within the Oneness movement to the forefront of public discussion, in fact helping the whole of the Oneness movement get a chance to glimpse our Apostolic roots, a position which was believed among ALL early Oneness believers between the 1st and 3rd Centuries and during the early 20th Century.

During the last 40 years, the Oneness movement has suffered much damage, both internal and external, due to the UPCI's unofficial adoption of the Mind Word Only Theory.

Externally, the recent general acceptance of Mind Word Only within the majority of the modern Oneness movement has greatly hindered our movement's credibility within Academic Circles.

Our scholars are loosing over and over again, in formal debate, against Trinitarian Apologists on the subject of Pre-Incarnate generated Logos, which Mind Word Only Theory denies.

Internally, Mind Word Only leaders are committing theological genocide against the minority wing of our movement by presenting Mind Word Only Theory as the official position of the Oneness movement herself.

Minority position Oneness believers are being ostracized by majority believers and are being labeled by them "NOT ONENESS".

The failure of Mind Word Only leaders to adequately recognize and celebrate the diversity among Oneness believers on this subject has sown much division and discord among the bretheren, these atrocities MUST come to an abrupt end and amends made.

Considering that both positions are viable contributors to study of early Oneness beliefs, the more ancient position should by no wise be systematically eradicated from modern Oneness presentation via leaders holding the less ancient opinion.

Thank God for using EndTime and A.C.T.S. in the allowing of this issue to be brought to the forefront of public discussion in this manner. Amen.

Part 1
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:01 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

Part 2

To learn more about the difference between Biblical Oneness and the 4th Century Mind Word Only Theory, please visit the following link to the condensed article:
"Logos Doctrine Explained"
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3771...9375666085020/

In the Benediction section of the article, there is a link to a more expanded article titled:
"The History of Logos Doctrine".

It is highly recommended to read the condensed article twice before attempting to read the expanded article.

-1 Tim 4:16
"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine...."
-Ref: Acts 2:42

mark august; MDiv
writing for
Academy of Christian
Theological Studies
A.C.T.S. Think-Tank
acts2216.org
"Bridging the Gap Between
Oneness and Trinitarianism"
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:24 PM
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC


Our scholars are losing to Trinitarians because they don’t believe in 2 gods!?
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:42 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by diakonos View Post

Our scholars are losing to Trinitarians because they don’t believe in 2 gods!?

Not what he said
. Our debaters lose in the discussion of the Logos because they deny God had a form before Bethlehem.

As the great Oneness preacher John Eckstat once said "without this understanding the Trins and Jehovah Witnesses will eat you alive".
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:13 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

I find it interesting how Mark August complains about the other side being intolerant and sowing discord, while declaring his position as the only Biblical Oneness position. I find that utterly hypocritical.

Besides which, ANYONE who teaches a created Logos is in serious error, and is just a trinitarian-in-hiding. Notice, I'm not demanding tolerance for a multitude of views while hypocritically claiming to hold the real truth on the matter. I don't want toleration for error.

There is room within Oneness for "Logos is God manifesting Himself pre-Bethlehem" and "Logos is the Mind and Plan of God". But there is NO ROOM for any created or "generated" Logos - THAT is nothing else than the seed of the trinitarian error.

We are witnessing a repeat of the 2nd and 3rd century rise of trinitarianism. Ever wondered how the churches went from Biblical Oneness to trinity? THIS is how it happened.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:20 PM
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

As for people "losing debates"? Pure poppycock. Who decides who won or lost a debate? JWs eating apostolics alive? He must not have ever met any. My kids trounce them on our doorstep, the JWs literally run away with confused looks and are unable to answer questions. I've had ELDERS and PIONEERS in my living room and blew them away with SIMPLE BASIC ONENESS.

As for trinitarians? Doublethinking one = 3 is not subject to correction by argument, it requires revelation. Either God shows you who Jesus is, or He doesn't. I didn't become Oneness by being debated into it, it was a solid revelation. Which is why I am immune to the arguments of idolaters, whether trinitarians, twoness, or pushers of a begotten Logos.
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:09 PM
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

Quote:
We are witnessing a repeat of the 2nd and 3rd century rise of trinitarianism. Ever wondered how the churches went from Biblical Oneness to trinity? THIS is how it happened.
August shows what happened in his writings. Oneness was the original teaching including the doctrine of the pre existing Logos as Gods form. Later generations were misled by the enemy to believe the form was a second person.

A large part of what he attempts to show is that if you go back far enough historically Oneness, Arian, and Trinity all believed in pre incarnate Logos.

The difference being Arians believed in a created distinct Son, The Trins believed in an uncreated distinct Son, co equal and co eternal with the Father.

True Apostolic teaching was the Logos was the image of the invisible God.

The founder of modern Oneness Pentecostalism taught this, Frank Ewart. Others famous in the 20th century Oneness movement such as GT Haywood among others.

To my knowledge Irvin Baxter is the most well known Oneness teacher who holds to this belief.

Both of these were
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:22 PM
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
August shows what happened in his writings. Oneness was the original teaching including the doctrine of the pre existing Logos as Gods form. Later generations were misled by the enemy to believe the form was a second person.

A large part of what he attempts to show is that if you go back far enough historically Oneness, Arian, and Trinity all believed in pre incarnate Logos.

The difference being Arians believed in a created distinct Son, The Trins believed in an uncreated distinct Son, co equal and co eternal with the Father.

True Apostolic teaching was the Logos was the image of the invisible God.

The founder of modern Oneness Pentecostalism taught this, Frank Ewart. Others famous in the 20th century Oneness movement such as GT Haywood among others.

To my knowledge Irvin Baxter is the most well known Oneness teacher who holds to this belief.

Both of these were
August (and you) fail to point out your doctrine isn't about a pre-Bethlehem form, but about a GENERATED (begotten) Logos.

EXACTLY like Tertullian taught.

For whatever reason you can't grasp the significance of the blunder you are making. You cite Baxter and Ewart, as if those are your authorities? As if their opinions even matter? The only thing that holds weight with me is the Bible. And the Bible categorically refutes the idea of a begotten Logos.
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:24 PM
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

Anyone claiming Frank Ewart is the "founder of modern Oneness Pentecostalism" isn't qualified to discuss the subject, in my opinion. If Ewart was the founder then we're all in a Johnny come lately heretical cult.

No wonder you get "trounced" by trins, you've surrendered before a shot ever gets fired.
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:05 PM
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Re: Logos Doctrine And The UPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Anyone claiming Frank Ewart is the "founder of modern Oneness Pentecostalism" isn't qualified to discuss the subject, in my opinion. If Ewart was the founder then we're all in a Johnny come lately heretical cult.

No wonder you get "trounced" by trins, you've surrendered before a shot ever gets fired.
It is an established fact that Ewart was the ringleader of the Oneness faction of the Assembles Of God where the doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism began in our time . He began preaching the full message, Oneness and Acts 2:38 in 1914.

If you can produce DOCUMENTATION of anyone preaching this combination together from the time of the early Church before then produce it. I would be happy to see it.

I dont follow man but I do acknowledge when a man teaches truth.

I dont doubt that there have been groups teaching it here and there over the centuries but I have never seen it DOCUMENTED. Yes men taught Oneness. Others taught baptism in Jesus name. Others taught tongues as the evidence.

I know of none who taught these things as a new birth package.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 10-11-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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