Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

I do not understand what Paul is saying by "nature". I have seen countless pictures of little boys going for their first hair cut with hair down the back. My cousin had twins, on boy one girl guess what, when they took the boy for a first hair cut his hair was longer than his sisters. So... males do not naturally have "short" hair.

I agree with how Barnes and Gill explain it.

"The word nature (φύσις phusis) denotes evidently that sense of propriety which all men have, and which is expressed in any prevailing or universal custom." - Barnes

"By nature is either meant, the law and light of nature, reason in man, common sense, or rather custom, which is second nature;" Gill

Pulpit Commentary says it succinctly - "instinct".

The "instinct" brings to mind how Adam and Eve who were not "ashamed" of their nakedness until their eyes were opened. Instinctively, they knew they needed to cover up.

We "instinctively" know that a woman's hair is a feminine and beautiful aspect of her makeup (no pun intended).

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by rdp

*So is this how you understand I Cor. 11.5-6?

5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with cropped hair dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. v6 For if a woman has cropped hair, let her also have cropped hair. But if it is shameful for a woman to have cropped hair or a shaved head, let her have uncropped hair?


*Got it - makes perfectly logical sense !

Of course not! Because it doesn't make sense--just like the version of the verses that I posted plugging in your understanding of what "covered" and "uncovered" mean doesn't make sense. By the way you didn't affirm or deny if what I had posted expressed your view of these verses.

"5 But every woman who prays or prophesies without being covered with a cloth head covering dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6 For if a woman is not covered with a cloth head covering, let her also cut of all her hair. But if it is shameful for a woman to have all her hair cut off or to be shaved, let her be covered with a cloth head covering."

The following is a paraphrase: "5 Every woman who stands up in the assembly to pray or prophesy without wearing a veil on her head dishonors her husband, her Head. It would be as bad as her standing up to pray or prophesy with her head shaved! Now that would be a dishonor! Both to her husband and to herself. 6 So, if a woman refuses to cover her head with a veil, I command her to go the whole way and cut off all her hair too. If she wants to be uncovered, well, let her be uncovered in every way! Now, I know you all think that it would be a terrible shame for a woman to have all her hair cut off or to be shaved. Well, I'm telling you, it is just as shameful when a woman doesn't cover her head with a veil. So, sisters, wear your veils!

[good samaritan]

It would be nice if 1 Cor. 11 had a little more scriptures explaining. I have seen many people that would not even attend an apostolic church because of the issue surrounding hair or head coverings. In my home it has never been an issue. it would be unatural for me to grow my hair long as it would my wife to cut hers. We have never practiced an extra cloth head covering, but that seems to would cause an even bigger culture shock for most people in America.

I wouldn't argue either stance on this scripture, because there is so much unclear to me. Again, I wish there was more context behind 1 Cor. 11 to clear the water. like the phrase, "because of the angels". What does that really mean? I have heard all sorts of things, but nothing seems right to me that I have heard. Angels breeding with women, holy magic hair, etc... I wish we had some more witnesses when it comes to 1 Cor. 11.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It would be nice if 1 Cor. 11 had a little more scriptures explaining. I have seen many people that would not even attend an apostolic church because of the issue surrounding hair or head coverings. In my home it has never been an issue. it would be unatural for me to grow my hair long as it would my wife to cut hers. We have never practiced an extra cloth head covering, but that seems to would cause an even bigger culture shock for most people in America.

I wouldn't argue either stance on this scripture, because there is so much unclear to me. Again, I wish there was more context behind 1 Cor. 11 to clear the water. like the phrase, "because of the angels". What does that really mean? I have heard all sorts of things, but nothing seems right to me that I have heard. Angels breeding with women, holy magic hair, etc... I wish we had some more witnesses when it comes to 1 Cor. 11.

Paul gives several reasons for women to be covered when praying or prophesying, and "because of the angels" is only one of them. The others are because the man is the glory of God and the woman is the glory of the man, the head of the man is Christ and the head of the man is the woman, and the lesson from nature. So even if we do not understand "because of the angels", we CAN understand the other reasons.

Paul puts it in the category of apostolic ordinances, as well as the "custom of the churches of God". That can also be understood.

Since we are responsible for teaching "the whole counsel of God" and since God saw fit to preserve the apostle's teaching concerning this subject, we must teach it. And we should teach it as it is written.

"Culture shock" is not near as bad as you perhaps imagine it might be. If a person is convinced the Bible teaches something, and they are committed to following the Word of God and living by the Word, then there is no "culture shock". I have never seen anyone in the world "shocked" at either long hair or actual head coverings. When people see a modestly dressed woman with a head covering, or with long hair, they almost ALWAYS assume she is a devout Christian. If they do not assume that, they certainly don't assume she is anything else, or anything bad. I have seen it over and over again.

And when people who have never read 1 Cor 11 ask "so why the long hair?" or "why do you wear a head covering?" and it is explained to them, from the Scriptures, they understand and respect that. Whether they are willing to obey the Scriptures is another story, of course. But then again, the goal of evangelism is not to get women to cover their heads or have long hair, but to get them to live for Jesus. Hair and head covering is something that follows from that.

The only people I have ever found who are literally AGAINST head coverings, or long hair, are either people who literally are against being a Christian of any kind, or else professing Christians who almost always take the view "I don't care what it says, I just don't feel convicted about that and I'm going to live how I want anyway, that was a quaint old custom for back then and is not obligatory on us today" etc.

And speaking of culture shock, America doesn't know what bathroom to use, there are supposedly some 50+ genders out there (and growing daily), people walk around dressed like a scene from the Cantina in Star Wars... in short, there IS no "culture" left to be "shocked". It's practically Beyond Thunderdome (metaphorically speaking). So having long hair, wearing a head covering, and dressing modestly are hardly anything to worry about as far as that is concerned.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It would be nice if 1 Cor. 11 had a little more scriptures explaining. I have seen many people that would not even attend an apostolic church because of the issue surrounding hair or head coverings. In my home it has never been an issue. it would be unatural for me to grow my hair long as it would my wife to cut hers. We have never practiced an extra cloth head covering, but that seems to would cause an even bigger culture shock for most people in America.

I wouldn't argue either stance on this scripture, because there is so much unclear to me. Again, I wish there was more context behind 1 Cor. 11 to clear the water. like the phrase, "because of the angels". What does that really mean? I have heard all sorts of things, but nothing seems right to me that I have heard. Angels breeding with women, holy magic hair, etc... I wish we had some more witnesses when it comes to 1 Cor. 11.

even if you practiced long uncut hair along with a cloth head covering, it would still be attractive. The woman in the picture looks, sweet, modest, and like she would be a Christian. If I needed prayer I'd most likely ask the woman below, versus the woman in the second picture.

[Amanah]

the second woman's plastic surgeon messed her up, unless she requested "joker lips"

[good samaritan]

I have friends that were a part of a church that practiced head coverings. We had bible studies with them and the lady said she felt bound. Every time she prayed she felt she most go get something to cover her head. I seen her point, but it does seem that 1 Cor. 11 includes a veil.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have friends that were a part of a church that practiced head coverings. We had bible studies with them and the lady said she felt bound. Every time she prayed she felt she most go get something to cover her head. I seen her point, but it does seem that 1 Cor. 11 includes a veil.

1cor 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering

[Aquila]

I believe that the present issue in Corinth was that women were not wearing their head coverings on account of their new found liberty in Christ, in spite of admonitions from husbands and elders. Paul's focus was on a woman's submission to her husband and propriety. I'm not certain that this was intended to be a "dress code" to be enforced universally throughout the churches for all time. I liken it unto admonitions that women not wear low cut blouses, short skirts, tight jeans, etc. Such are not appropriate for worship gatherings and make a woman appear like a loose woman, thereby dishonoring her head, meaning her husband.

But, if a pastor desires to enforce a head covering standard, I can't deny that there is Scripture for the specific practice.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

1cor 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering

I heard that this is best translated or understood in the sense of:

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: therefore her hair is given her to be wrapped up."

And this is why historically Christian women have always covered their heads for worship gatherings since the earliest days of the church, and is even still practiced today in the much older Christian traditions.