I heard a great late Elder say " I will let the cow eat the alfalfa and I will eat the cow." Worked for him. He said I get all my vegetables in a medium rare steak with fries.
George Burns drank and smoked all the time and lived to a ripe old age. Shall we follow this testimony?
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Mind if I ask where did get the info high doses of C cause stones?
There are different kinds of kidney stones.
This past spring, I had my very first (and prayerfully LAST) bout with kidney stones. After an ambulance ride and ER visit, the Dr told me that it was just the beginning of a VERY BAD weekend that I was going to have. The pain that had me on the floor, violently ill (and I am one tough cookie) was only the first and smallest of three stones. I came home, did some reading, and began drinking lots of orange juice, water and taking Vitamin C tablets. My remaining stones completely dissolved and I had no further trouble, Thank God!
Here is an article that I saved at that time:
KIDNEY STONES (Renal Calculi) AND THEIR RELATION TO DIET
There are five types of kidney stones:
1. Calcium phosphate stones are common and easily dissolve in urine acidified by Vitamin C.
2. Calcium oxalate stones are also common but they do not dissolve in acid urine.
3. Magnesium ammonium phosphate (struvite stones) are much less common, often appearing after an infection. They dissolve in vitamin C acidified urine.
4. Uric acid stones result from a problem metabolizing purines (the chemical base of adenine, xanthine, theobromine [in chocolate] and uric acid). They may form in a condition such as gout.
5. Cystine stones result from a hereditary inability to reabsorb cystine. Most children's stones are this type, and these are rare.
The Role of Vitamin C in Preventing and Dissolving Kidney Stones:
The very common calcium phosphate stone can only exist in a urinary tract that is not acidic. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C's most common form) acidifies the urine, thereby dissolving phosphate stones and preventing their formation.
Acidic urine will also dissolve magnesium ammonium phosphate stones, which would otherwise require surgical removal. These are the same struvite stones associated with urinary tract infections. Both the infection and the stone are easily cured with vitamin C in large doses. BOTH are virtually 100% preventable with daily consumption of much-greater-than-RDA amounts of ascorbic acid. Think grams, not milligrams! A gorilla gets about 4,000 mg of vitamin C a day in its natural diet. The US RDA for humans is only 60 mg. Someone is wrong, and I don't think it's the gorillas.
The common calcium oxalate stone can form in an acidic urine whether one takes vitamin C or not. However, if a person gets adequate quantities of B-complex vitamins and magnesium, this type of stone does not form. Any common B-complex supplement twice daily, plus about 400 milligrams of magnesium, is usually adequate.
Ascorbate (the active ion in vitamin C) does increase the body's production of oxalate. Yet, in practice, vitamin C does not increase oxalate stone formation. Drs. Emanuel Cheraskin, Marshall Ringsdorf, Jr. and Emily Sisley explain in The Vitamin C Connection (1983) that acidic urine or slightly acidic urine reduces the UNION of calcium and oxalate, reducing the possibility of stones. "Vitamin C in the urine tends to bind calcium and decrease its free form. This means less chance of calcium's separating out as calcium oxalate (stones)." (page 213) Also, the diuretic effect of vitamin C reduces the static conditions necessary for stone formation in general. Fast moving rivers deposit little silt.
Furthermore, you can avoid excessive oxalates by not eating (much) rhubarb, spinach, or chocolate. If a doctor thinks that a person is especially prone to forming oxalate stones, that person should read the suggestions below before abandoning the benefits of vitamin C.
Ways for ANYONE to reduce the risk of kidney stones:
1. Maximize fluid intake. Especially drink fruit and vegetable juices. Orange, grape and carrot juices are high in citrates which inhibit both a build up of uric acid and also stop calcium salts from forming. (Carper, J. "Orange Juice May Prevent Kidney Stones," Lancaster Intelligencer-Journal, Jan 5, 1994)
2. Control urine pH: acidic urine helps prevent urinary tract infections, dissolves both phosphate and struvite stones, and will not cause oxalate stones.
3. Eat your veggies: studies have shown that dietary oxalate is generally not a significant factor in stone formation. I would go easy on rhubarb and spinach, however.
4. Most kidney stones are compounds of calcium and most Americans are calcium deficient. Instead of lowering calcium intake, reduce excess dietary phosphorous by avoiding carbonated soft drinks, especially colas. Soft drinks contain excessive quantities of phosphorous as phosphoric acid. This is the same acid that has been used by dentists to etch tooth enamel before applying sealant.
Remember that Americans get only about 500 mg of dietary calcium daily, and the RDA is 800 to 1200 mg/day. Any nutritionist, doctor or text suggesting calcium reduction is in serious error.
5. Take a magnesium supplement of AT LEAST the US RDA of 300-350 mg/day (more may be desirable in order to maintain an ideal 1:2 balance of magnesium to calcium)
6. Be certain to take a good B-complex vitamin supplement daily, which contains pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6). B-6 deficiency produces kidney stones in experimental animals. Remember:
* B-6 deficiency is very common in humans
* B-1 (thiamine) deficiency also is associated with stones (Hagler and Herman, "Oxalate Metabolism, II" American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 26:8, 882-889, August, 1973)
7. Additionally, low calcium may itself CAUSE calcium stones (L. H. Smith, et al, "Medical Evaluation of Urolithiasis" Urological Clinics of North America 1:2, 241-260, June 1974)
8. For uric acid/purine stones (gout), STOP EATING MEAT! Nutrition tables and textbooks indicate meats as the major dietary purine source. Naturopathic treatment adds juice fasts and eating sour cherries. Increased Vitamin C consumption helps by improving the urinary excretion of uric acid. (Cheraskin, et al, 1983). Use buffered ascorbate "C".
9. Persons with cystine stones (only 1% of all kidney stones) should follow a low methionine diet and use buffered C.
10. Kidney stones are associated with high sugar intake, so eat less (or no) added sugar (J. A. Thom, et al "The Influence of Refined Carbohydrate on Urinary Calcium Excretion," British Journal of Urology, 50:7, 459-464, December, 1978)
11. Infections can cause conditions that favor stone formation, such as overly concentrated urine (from fever sweating, vomiting or diarrhea). Practice good preventive health care, and it will pay you back with interest.
REFERENCES:
Cheraskin, Ringsdorf Jr., and Sisley: The Vitamin C Connection, Harper and Row, 1983
Pauling, Linus "Are Kidney Stones Associated with Vitamin C Intake?" Today's Living, September, 1981
Pauling, Linus "Crystals in the Kidney," Linus Pauling Institute Newsletter, 1:11, Spring, 1981
Pauling, Linus How to Live Longer and Feel Better, Freeman, 1986
Thanks for posting this. I hadn't had a lot of time to research yet, and I sadly, won't for a few weeks (finals coming up). This is what I was seeing in some quick googles though. It has been quite a few years since I've studied this, apparently new (hopefully better) studies are saying that it's the opposite, Vit C dissolves rather than causes, kidney stones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus2Mom
There are different kinds of kidney stones.
This past spring, I had my very first (and prayerfully LAST) bout with kidney stones. After an ambulance ride and ER visit, the Dr told me that it was just the beginning of a VERY BAD weekend that I was going to have. The pain that had me on the floor, violently ill (and I am one tough cookie) was only the first and smallest of three stones. I came home, did some reading, and began drinking lots of orange juice, water and taking Vitamin C tablets. My remaining stones completely dissolved and I had no further trouble, Thank God!
Here is an article that I saved at that time:
KIDNEY STONES (Renal Calculi) AND THEIR RELATION TO DIET
There are five types of kidney stones:
1. Calcium phosphate stones are common and easily dissolve in urine acidified by Vitamin C.
2. Calcium oxalate stones are also common but they do not dissolve in acid urine.
3. Magnesium ammonium phosphate (struvite stones) are much less common, often appearing after an infection. They dissolve in vitamin C acidified urine.
4. Uric acid stones result from a problem metabolizing purines (the chemical base of adenine, xanthine, theobromine [in chocolate] and uric acid). They may form in a condition such as gout.
5. Cystine stones result from a hereditary inability to reabsorb cystine. Most children's stones are this type, and these are rare.
The Role of Vitamin C in Preventing and Dissolving Kidney Stones:
The very common calcium phosphate stone can only exist in a urinary tract that is not acidic. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C's most common form) acidifies the urine, thereby dissolving phosphate stones and preventing their formation.
Acidic urine will also dissolve magnesium ammonium phosphate stones, which would otherwise require surgical removal. These are the same struvite stones associated with urinary tract infections. Both the infection and the stone are easily cured with vitamin C in large doses. BOTH are virtually 100% preventable with daily consumption of much-greater-than-RDA amounts of ascorbic acid. Think grams, not milligrams! A gorilla gets about 4,000 mg of vitamin C a day in its natural diet. The US RDA for humans is only 60 mg. Someone is wrong, and I don't think it's the gorillas.
The common calcium oxalate stone can form in an acidic urine whether one takes vitamin C or not. However, if a person gets adequate quantities of B-complex vitamins and magnesium, this type of stone does not form. Any common B-complex supplement twice daily, plus about 400 milligrams of magnesium, is usually adequate.
Ascorbate (the active ion in vitamin C) does increase the body's production of oxalate. Yet, in practice, vitamin C does not increase oxalate stone formation. Drs. Emanuel Cheraskin, Marshall Ringsdorf, Jr. and Emily Sisley explain in The Vitamin C Connection (1983) that acidic urine or slightly acidic urine reduces the UNION of calcium and oxalate, reducing the possibility of stones. "Vitamin C in the urine tends to bind calcium and decrease its free form. This means less chance of calcium's separating out as calcium oxalate (stones)." (page 213) Also, the diuretic effect of vitamin C reduces the static conditions necessary for stone formation in general. Fast moving rivers deposit little silt.
Furthermore, you can avoid excessive oxalates by not eating (much) rhubarb, spinach, or chocolate. If a doctor thinks that a person is especially prone to forming oxalate stones, that person should read the suggestions below before abandoning the benefits of vitamin C.
Ways for ANYONE to reduce the risk of kidney stones:
1. Maximize fluid intake. Especially drink fruit and vegetable juices. Orange, grape and carrot juices are high in citrates which inhibit both a build up of uric acid and also stop calcium salts from forming. (Carper, J. "Orange Juice May Prevent Kidney Stones," Lancaster Intelligencer-Journal, Jan 5, 1994)
2. Control urine pH: acidic urine helps prevent urinary tract infections, dissolves both phosphate and struvite stones, and will not cause oxalate stones.
3. Eat your veggies: studies have shown that dietary oxalate is generally not a significant factor in stone formation. I would go easy on rhubarb and spinach, however.
4. Most kidney stones are compounds of calcium and most Americans are calcium deficient. Instead of lowering calcium intake, reduce excess dietary phosphorous by avoiding carbonated soft drinks, especially colas. Soft drinks contain excessive quantities of phosphorous as phosphoric acid. This is the same acid that has been used by dentists to etch tooth enamel before applying sealant.
Remember that Americans get only about 500 mg of dietary calcium daily, and the RDA is 800 to 1200 mg/day. Any nutritionist, doctor or text suggesting calcium reduction is in serious error.
5. Take a magnesium supplement of AT LEAST the US RDA of 300-350 mg/day (more may be desirable in order to maintain an ideal 1:2 balance of magnesium to calcium)
6. Be certain to take a good B-complex vitamin supplement daily, which contains pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6). B-6 deficiency produces kidney stones in experimental animals. Remember:
* B-6 deficiency is very common in humans
* B-1 (thiamine) deficiency also is associated with stones (Hagler and Herman, "Oxalate Metabolism, II" American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 26:8, 882-889, August, 1973)
7. Additionally, low calcium may itself CAUSE calcium stones (L. H. Smith, et al, "Medical Evaluation of Urolithiasis" Urological Clinics of North America 1:2, 241-260, June 1974)
8. For uric acid/purine stones (gout), STOP EATING MEAT! Nutrition tables and textbooks indicate meats as the major dietary purine source. Naturopathic treatment adds juice fasts and eating sour cherries. Increased Vitamin C consumption helps by improving the urinary excretion of uric acid. (Cheraskin, et al, 1983). Use buffered ascorbate "C".
9. Persons with cystine stones (only 1% of all kidney stones) should follow a low methionine diet and use buffered C.
10. Kidney stones are associated with high sugar intake, so eat less (or no) added sugar (J. A. Thom, et al "The Influence of Refined Carbohydrate on Urinary Calcium Excretion," British Journal of Urology, 50:7, 459-464, December, 1978)
11. Infections can cause conditions that favor stone formation, such as overly concentrated urine (from fever sweating, vomiting or diarrhea). Practice good preventive health care, and it will pay you back with interest.
REFERENCES:
Cheraskin, Ringsdorf Jr., and Sisley: The Vitamin C Connection, Harper and Row, 1983
Pauling, Linus "Are Kidney Stones Associated with Vitamin C Intake?" Today's Living, September, 1981
Pauling, Linus "Crystals in the Kidney," Linus Pauling Institute Newsletter, 1:11, Spring, 1981
Pauling, Linus How to Live Longer and Feel Better, Freeman, 1986
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
This past spring, I had my very first (and prayerfully LAST) bout with kidney stones. After an ambulance ride and ER visit, the Dr told me that it was just the beginning of a VERY BAD weekend that I was going to have. The pain that had me on the floor, violently ill (and I am one tough cookie) was only the first and smallest of three stones. I came home, did some reading, and began drinking lots of orange juice, water and taking Vitamin C tablets. My remaining stones completely dissolved and I had no further trouble, Thank God!
Here is an article that I saved at that time:
KIDNEY STONES (Renal Calculi) AND THEIR RELATION TO DIET
There are five types of kidney stones:
1. Calcium phosphate stones are common and easily dissolve in urine acidified by Vitamin C.
2. Calcium oxalate stones are also common but they do not dissolve in acid urine.
3. Magnesium ammonium phosphate (struvite stones) are much less common, often appearing after an infection. They dissolve in vitamin C acidified urine.
4. Uric acid stones result from a problem metabolizing purines (the chemical base of adenine, xanthine, theobromine [in chocolate] and uric acid). They may form in a condition such as gout.
5. Cystine stones result from a hereditary inability to reabsorb cystine. Most children's stones are this type, and these are rare.
The Role of Vitamin C in Preventing and Dissolving Kidney Stones:
The very common calcium phosphate stone can only exist in a urinary tract that is not acidic. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C's most common form) acidifies the urine, thereby dissolving phosphate stones and preventing their formation.
Acidic urine will also dissolve magnesium ammonium phosphate stones, which would otherwise require surgical removal. These are the same struvite stones associated with urinary tract infections. Both the infection and the stone are easily cured with vitamin C in large doses. BOTH are virtually 100% preventable with daily consumption of much-greater-than-RDA amounts of ascorbic acid. Think grams, not milligrams! A gorilla gets about 4,000 mg of vitamin C a day in its natural diet. The US RDA for humans is only 60 mg. Someone is wrong, and I don't think it's the gorillas.
The common calcium oxalate stone can form in an acidic urine whether one takes vitamin C or not. However, if a person gets adequate quantities of B-complex vitamins and magnesium, this type of stone does not form. Any common B-complex supplement twice daily, plus about 400 milligrams of magnesium, is usually adequate.
Ascorbate (the active ion in vitamin C) does increase the body's production of oxalate. Yet, in practice, vitamin C does not increase oxalate stone formation. Drs. Emanuel Cheraskin, Marshall Ringsdorf, Jr. and Emily Sisley explain in The Vitamin C Connection (1983) that acidic urine or slightly acidic urine reduces the UNION of calcium and oxalate, reducing the possibility of stones. "Vitamin C in the urine tends to bind calcium and decrease its free form. This means less chance of calcium's separating out as calcium oxalate (stones)." (page 213) Also, the diuretic effect of vitamin C reduces the static conditions necessary for stone formation in general. Fast moving rivers deposit little silt.
Furthermore, you can avoid excessive oxalates by not eating (much) rhubarb, spinach, or chocolate. If a doctor thinks that a person is especially prone to forming oxalate stones, that person should read the suggestions below before abandoning the benefits of vitamin C.
Ways for ANYONE to reduce the risk of kidney stones:
1. Maximize fluid intake. Especially drink fruit and vegetable juices. Orange, grape and carrot juices are high in citrates which inhibit both a build up of uric acid and also stop calcium salts from forming. (Carper, J. "Orange Juice May Prevent Kidney Stones," Lancaster Intelligencer-Journal, Jan 5, 1994)
2. Control urine pH: acidic urine helps prevent urinary tract infections, dissolves both phosphate and struvite stones, and will not cause oxalate stones.
3. Eat your veggies: studies have shown that dietary oxalate is generally not a significant factor in stone formation. I would go easy on rhubarb and spinach, however.
4. Most kidney stones are compounds of calcium and most Americans are calcium deficient. Instead of lowering calcium intake, reduce excess dietary phosphorous by avoiding carbonated soft drinks, especially colas. Soft drinks contain excessive quantities of phosphorous as phosphoric acid. This is the same acid that has been used by dentists to etch tooth enamel before applying sealant.
Remember that Americans get only about 500 mg of dietary calcium daily, and the RDA is 800 to 1200 mg/day. Any nutritionist, doctor or text suggesting calcium reduction is in serious error.
5. Take a magnesium supplement of AT LEAST the US RDA of 300-350 mg/day (more may be desirable in order to maintain an ideal 1:2 balance of magnesium to calcium)
6. Be certain to take a good B-complex vitamin supplement daily, which contains pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6). B-6 deficiency produces kidney stones in experimental animals. Remember:
* B-6 deficiency is very common in humans
* B-1 (thiamine) deficiency also is associated with stones (Hagler and Herman, "Oxalate Metabolism, II" American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 26:8, 882-889, August, 1973)
7. Additionally, low calcium may itself CAUSE calcium stones (L. H. Smith, et al, "Medical Evaluation of Urolithiasis" Urological Clinics of North America 1:2, 241-260, June 1974)
8. For uric acid/purine stones (gout), STOP EATING MEAT! Nutrition tables and textbooks indicate meats as the major dietary purine source. Naturopathic treatment adds juice fasts and eating sour cherries. Increased Vitamin C consumption helps by improving the urinary excretion of uric acid. (Cheraskin, et al, 1983). Use buffered ascorbate "C".
9. Persons with cystine stones (only 1% of all kidney stones) should follow a low methionine diet and use buffered C.
10. Kidney stones are associated with high sugar intake, so eat less (or no) added sugar (J. A. Thom, et al "The Influence of Refined Carbohydrate on Urinary Calcium Excretion," British Journal of Urology, 50:7, 459-464, December, 1978)
11. Infections can cause conditions that favor stone formation, such as overly concentrated urine (from fever sweating, vomiting or diarrhea). Practice good preventive health care, and it will pay you back with interest.
REFERENCES:
Cheraskin, Ringsdorf Jr., and Sisley: The Vitamin C Connection, Harper and Row, 1983
Pauling, Linus "Are Kidney Stones Associated with Vitamin C Intake?" Today's Living, September, 1981
Pauling, Linus "Crystals in the Kidney," Linus Pauling Institute Newsletter, 1:11, Spring, 1981
Pauling, Linus How to Live Longer and Feel Better, Freeman, 1986
Doesn't say Vit C causes stones.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Anyone take the B12 that goes under the tongue? Results?
I am taking InVita Sublingual B12 tablets that dissolve under the tongue as well as a liquid B12 Complex that you hold in your mouth (says under the tongue but I haven't figured out quite how to make a liquid in my mouth stay under my tongue ).
If you will see my note earlier in the thread you will see that I just started this regimen due to my daughter's suggestion that I might be B12 deficient or be suffering from Pernicious Anemia.
I started the regimen on Tuesday of last week and at the time I was in tremendous pain in my neck back and shoulders due to nerve pain (sever burning and hurting). This pain and burning had persisted for over two weeks. By Friday evening the pain had subsided to a tolerable level and is almost negligible now.
I cannot say for certain that the sublingual B12 has been the cause but it sure seems to be a likely culprit.
anybody know good herbal supliments to lower cholostol?
Omega 3 - available in generic form as "fish oil"
Odorless garlic capsules- make sure they are odorless, or after a short period of time you will have the garlic smell coming through on your skin. This also helps to regulate blood pressure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I'm into a lot of the natural stuff. It's hard to know what works and what doesn't sometimes though. Last year I had two sinus infections first time in my life. This year I am using nasal rinses and none so far...
Echinicea & Goldenseal works.. but you should not take it for more than two weeks at a time.
So does Myrrh Gum capsules. (Do a little research on Myrrh-- it is very interesting reading)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Anyone take Glucosamine and Chondroitin for joints? Anyone take anything else? I know to drink lots of water.
I take this twice daily, and it works wonders.
I also take -
Vitamin B Complex (takes the edge off daily stress)
Calcium & Magnesium supplement (hoping to prevent bone density problems later in life)
Women's Daily Multivitamin
Potassium (prescribed to go with diuretic)
Fish Oil (lowers cholesterol)
Odorless Garlic (regulates blood pressure)
Feverfew (migraine prevention)
Myrrh Gum for sinus/ear infections as needed. Apparently this stuff works for any infection in the head or chest-- because it knocked out a toothache and bronchitis also.
I heard a great late Elder say " I will let the cow eat the alfalfa and I will eat the cow." Worked for him. He said I get all my vegetables in a medium rare steak with fries.
ROFL!!! LadyRev will like that one, cause that's where she gets her veggies too!!!
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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