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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1  
Old 10-27-2017, 10:10 AM
Broseanrichard Broseanrichard is offline
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Question on oneness doctrine?

Can anyone help me figure this out. The father/lord is translated in the Old Testament as Yahweh(YHWH). In the New Testament we call messiah yeshua (Jesus). If Jesus is GOD(Yahweh) how does this work with 2 different names?
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:38 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

Mathew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus - Lexicon :: Strong's G2424 - Iēsous

Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:40 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

Yahweh[edit]
Main article: Yahweh

Wilhelm Gesenius's Hebrew punctuation (i.e., Yahweh)


Tetragrammaton (with the vowel points for Adonai) on a Wittenberg University debate lectern
The Hebrew scholar Wilhelm Gesenius [1786–1842] suggested that the Hebrew punctuation יַהְוֶה, which is transliterated into English as "Yahweh", might more accurately represent the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton than the Biblical Hebrew punctuation "יְהֹוָה", from which the English name "Jehovah" has been derived. His proposal to read YHWH as "יַהְוֶה‎" (see image to the left) was based in large part on various Greek transcriptions, such as ιαβε, dating from the first centuries CE but also on the forms of theophoric names. In his Hebrew Dictionary, Gesenius supports "Yahweh" (which would have been pronounced [jahwe], with the final letter being silent) because of the Samaritan pronunciation Ιαβε reported by Theodoret, and that the theophoric name prefixes YHW [jeho] and YH [jo] can be explained from the form "Yahweh".[8] Gesenius' proposal to read YHWH as יַהְוֶה‎ is accepted as the best scholarly reconstructed vocalised Hebrew spelling of the tetragrammaton.[9]
Theophoric names[edit]
Yeho or "Yehō-" is the prefix form of "YHWH" used in Hebrew theophoric names; the suffix form "Yahū" or "-Yehū" is just as common, which has caused two opinions:
In former times (at least from c.1650..CE), the prefix pronunciation "Yehō-" was sometimes connected with the full pronunciation "Yehova", derived from combining the Masoretic vowel points for "Adonai" with the consonantal tetragrammaton YHWH.
Recently, as "Yahweh" is likely an imperfective verb form, "Yahu" is its corresponding preterite or jussive short form: compare yiŝtahaweh (imperfective), yiŝtáhû (preterit or jussive short form) = "do obeisance".[10]
The first argument 1 is believed by George Wesley Buchanan in Biblical Archaeology Review; Smith's 1863 A Dictionary of the Bible;[11] Section # 2.1 The Analytical Hebrew & Chaldee Lexicon (1848)[12] in its article הוה.
The second argument is supported on grammatical grounds because shortening to "Yahw" would end up as "Yahu" or something similar, and forms like Yo (יוֹ‎) contracted from Yeho (יְהוֹ‎) and the suffix "-yah",[13] as well as "Yeho-" or "Yo"[14] can most readily be explained as derivatives of "Yahweh" rather than from "Yehovah".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrag..._Hebrew_script
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:54 PM
Broseanrichard Broseanrichard is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Mathew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus - Lexicon :: Strong's G2424 - Iēsous

Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
Using the English how can Jesus be GOD if GOD has a different name. I fully understand a person can be a father and a son but they have the same name. GOD and messiah have different names
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Old 10-27-2017, 06:51 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseanrichard View Post
Using the English how can Jesus be GOD if GOD has a different name. I fully understand a person can be a father and a son but they have the same name. GOD and messiah have different names
Jesus inherited his name from God.(Hebrews 1:4)

This means the name belonged to God originally.

This name of/from God(Jesus) was not yet revealed until Matt. 1.(thou shalt call his name Jesus....).

Last edited by Sean; 10-27-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:34 PM
Broseanrichard Broseanrichard is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Jesus inherited his name from God.(Hebrews 1:4)

This means the name belonged to God originally.

This name of/from God(Jesus) was not yet revealed until Matt. 1.(thou shalt call his name Jesus....).
So your saying Yahweh is only a title and the reveled name of GOD is Yeshua (Jesus) according to the newer scriptures
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  #7  
Old 10-27-2017, 09:48 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseanrichard View Post
So your saying Yahweh is only a title and the reveled name of GOD is Yeshua (Jesus) according to the newer scriptures
The name Yeshua has the name Yahweh in it.
it is a compounded name.
the name Yeshua actually comes from the combination of the words
Yahweh is salvation or Yahweh the savior.

so the son already has the name of the father in his own name.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:13 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

John 8:57-58 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
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Old 10-29-2017, 12:45 AM
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

The name Yehoshua, or the Aramaic form Yeshua, from whence we get the name Jesus, is a theophoric name, meaning, that the name of God is embedded within the Messiah's name.

In pagan ancient Greece, for example, you have the goddess Aphrodite. But you also have the name Epaphroditus (See: Philippians 2:25 and 4:18). It is a distinct name, but the name of the goddess is nonetheless embedded in the name.

It's the same with Yehoshua (Jesus/Yeshua).

The Tetragrammaton, often written in English as YHWH (or, for example, among some Jews, YHVH), is, in Hebrew, yud hey vav hey or in modern Hebrew orthography (read from right to left):

יהוה‎

In Hebrew, the name Yehoshua looks like this:

יְהוֹשֻׁעַ

You can see then, that in the name Yehoshua, three of the four letters are represented, as follows:

יְ = yud or "Y"
וֹ = hey or "H"
וֹ = vav or "O"

Or, more simply:

Yud = Y
Hey = H
Vav = O

This is the truncated form of the name of God in the Old Testament, often written in English as Jah or Yah (The remainder of the name Yehoshua, that is, "-shua", is from the Hebrew word yasha, meaning to be safe, hence the meaning "Yah is Salvation").

For a comparison, the prophet Elijah, in transliterated Hebrew, is written as Eliyahu, noting that the y, h, and u (English "o" and "u" are represented by the same letter in Hebrew) represent the truncated form of God's Name (Elijah, therefore, is also a theophoric name).

In fact many names found in the Bible are theophoric in nature, such as Isaiah or Yeshayahu, Jeremiah or Yirmeyahu, Adonijah or Adoniyah, Nehemiah or Nehemyah, and etc.

So, it is correct to say that God's Name is embedded or inside of the name of Jesus, according to the Late Hebrew version of the name.

Now, this theophoric name of the Messiah does not indicate positively or even negatively, that the name Jesus is the name of God. That is a Theological and Christological concern having naught to do with the grammar and nature of the name of our Lord.

For example: Jesus was not the only person in the Bible so named. Joshua, the son of Nun, in late Hebrew, is Yehoshua, as well. This doesn't make him God, however.

So, whether or not Jesus is God is not based on His name, but on the revelation given to us through the Holy Scriptures of Who Jesus is.

In fact, the revelation of the name of Jesus as given to Joseph by the messenger Gabriel was not so much on account of Christ's identity as God, but rather, on His role as Savior (e.g. "...he shall save his people from their sins..."; Matthew 1:21).

Therefore, the focus on why Jesus was named Jesus is not on the YHO or theophoric aspect of His name, but rather on the compounded -shua aspect of His name.

To discover the manner in which it can be said that Jesus is God, or that Jesus is the name of God, is not so much through the name Jesus, but rather, through Christ's other name, that is: עִמָּנוּאֵל‎/Immanu' el, or "With us is God" (the reason I italicized the word "is", is because it is implied in the Hebrew, but not literally present, since Hebrew does not have a verb form that matches or means "is").

Therefore, in conclusion, the question in the original post is not an invalid or worthless question, but the answer to it, as given above, does not help to determine whether or not the Person of Christ is the same as the Person of God. That's a separate issue.
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Last edited by votivesoul; 10-29-2017 at 11:01 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2017, 08:19 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Question on oneness doctrine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseanrichard View Post
So your saying Yahweh is only a title and the reveled name of GOD is Yeshua (Jesus) according to the newer scriptures
Yes.

The only revealed name of God to N.T. believers is Jesus.

God named him with His own, formerly hidden name.

That is why the O.T. names/titles, noticeably drop off in the N.T.
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