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  #41  
Old 12-13-2019, 02:15 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Originally Posted by Ehud View Post
Thank you.




I could certainly be wrong, but as I have been watching Bro. Blume's videos... wasn't Daniel told to seal his book? And wasn't John told not to seal his book? In other words, don't we have a biblical standard for designating when those prophecies were intended?


Yes, Daniel is told to seal, and John is told to unseal. Frankly this is how we see Revelation unfold as the seals are being broken.
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  #42  
Old 12-13-2019, 02:27 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Then every eschatological thought uses that interpretation. Including the ones you were told to avoid. So, the sentence we were discussing clearly says the following, " In this situation wisdom is needed. Let the person who has insight figure out the number of the beast, because it is a human number. The beast's number is 666." Easy enough, who is the writer trying to reach? Those living at the time of the document, or not? If it is to be fulfilled some time thousands of years in the future, then how can they figure out the name? Or even recognize an individual who will not even be born for thousands of years after their deaths? If it was only meant for people living today, then why were previous generations not notified of this? Wouldn't that be important for the reader, as well as the author?
As the literal method states, you have to look at the historical context to figure out the obvious and simple meaning to the original audience. "Here is wisdom", there is an encoding behind this. "Let him who has understanding", those that know and can use the encoding? What encoding? well, the one they used. Can we figure it out? People has come up with different possibilities. Take into account that the encoding was intended to cypher the name, so probably wasn’t well known by non-christians. Time will tell what encoding method was correct. Now that's just one piece of the puzzle. If all the other signs are fulfilled then the right encoding will come to light to confirm it even more.

Then you have to recognized that the Scripture is inspired by God. God's prophecies are to be fulfilled in full. He is God, we do not need to help him to fulfill his Word with our innovative interpretation.
Then, if nobody to this day has fulfilled all those prophecies for the beast, then you have to come to the conclusion that the prophecy hasn't come to fulfillment yet. If you believe that it must have been fulfilled fully, then you will have to use allegorical interpretation so that you can fit your view into the scripture and the rest of signs. Pretty much you have to assume that the text for the other signs didn't mean the obvious meaning but you have to find hidden meanings so the prophecy can be "fulfilled".

Last edited by coksiw; 12-13-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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  #43  
Old 12-13-2019, 02:55 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
As the literal method states, you have to look at the historical context to figure out the obvious and simple meaning to the original audience. "Here is wisdom", there is an encoding behind this. "Let him who has understanding", those that know and can use the encoding? What encoding? well, the one they used. Can we figure it out? People has come up with different possibilities. Time will tell what encoding method was correct. Now that's just one piece of the puzzle. If all the other signs are fulfilled then the right encoding will come to light to confirm it even more.

Then you have to recognized that the Scripture is inspired by God. God's prophecies are to be fulfilled in full. He is God, we do not need to help him to fulfill his Word with our innovative interpretation.
Then, if nobody to this day has fulfilled all those prophecies for the beast, then you have to come to the conclusion that the prophecy hasn't come to fulfillment yet. If you believe that it must have been fulfilled fully, then you will have to use allegorical interpretation so that you can fit your view into the scripture and the rest of signs. Pretty much you have to assume that the text for the other signs didn't mean the obvious meaning but you have to find hidden meanings so the prophecy can be "fulfilled".
We aren't dealing with fulfillment. We are dealing with INSTRUCTIONS to READERS. So, again, was this sentence written to us and us alone? Because you clearly said nothing is fulfilled yet, therefore individuals reading these writings were not even expected to understand or investigate anything written in this sentence. He who hath understanding figure out the beast's number name. That is clear enough, but you say that it was only meant for a time in the very distant future. Even in our future. So, back to my original thought. The first century readers were not expected to use Gematria, a system for a people whose letters were also used as their numbers Romans, Greeks, and Hebrews. Americans don't have letter numbers (maybe when I was young we still used Roman numerals) but not any more. Again, it boils down to the INSTRUCTIONS were meant for WHO?
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  #44  
Old 12-13-2019, 03:19 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
We aren't dealing with fulfillment. We are dealing with INSTRUCTIONS to READERS. So, again, was this sentence written to us and us alone? Because you clearly said nothing is fulfilled yet, therefore individuals reading these writings were not even expected to understand or investigate anything written in this sentence. He who hath understanding figure out the beast's number name. That is clear enough, but you say that it was only meant for a time in the very distant future. Even in our future. So, back to my original thought. The first century readers were not expected to use Gematria, a system for a people whose letters were also used as their numbers Romans, Greeks, and Hebrews. Americans don't have letter numbers (maybe when I was young we still used Roman numerals) but not any more. Again, it boils down to the INSTRUCTIONS were meant for WHO?
What if the encoding is not of letters? It wouldn't be the first time things are not clear in prophecy:

[1Pe 1:10-12 NKJV] 10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace [that would come] to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things which angels desire to look into.

Even the OT prophecies about the messiah were not clear to the prophets themselves, and all attempt to figure out person and time was prevented by the Holy Spirit himself, indicating that it was not for them but for the profit of those that will be living in those times.

What's the purpose of prophecy? It is definitely not for you to reconstruct a future event with details, but instead to keep the signs in your heart, even if you don't fully understand them or can put them together, so that when they start happening you know what to do: observe the warnings, e.g. "don't follow the false Christs", or get some hope, e.g. "your redemption is near", or to know what to do, e.g. "flee".
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  #45  
Old 12-13-2019, 03:30 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
What if the encoding is not of letters? It wouldn't be the first time things are not clear in prophecy:

[1Pe 1:10-12 NKJV] 10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace [that would come] to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things which angels desire to look into.

Even the OT prophecies about the messiah were not clear to the prophets themselves, and all attempt to figure out person and time was prevented by the Holy Spirit himself, indicating that it was not for them but for the profit of those that will be living in those times.

What's the purpose of prophecy? It is definitely not for you to reconstruct a future event with details, but instead to keep the signs in your heart, even if you don't fully understand them or can put them together, so that when they start happening you know what to do: observe the warnings, e.g. "don't follow the false Christs", or get some hope, e.g. "your redemption is near", or to know what to do, e.g. "flee".
As Ehud pointed out, the book is unsealed. My lands it is called the Revelation for a reason. It means the opening of one's mind, to show you something. Look up your redemption draweth nigh is butted up to when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies Luke 21:28? Are you saying that is in our future? Modern Jews are going to be placed in slavery throughout our known world? They will be taken into this captivity at the edge of a sword?
But you said you were a literalist, but cannot tell me the truth about an instruction given over 2,000 years ago? You say, maybe they were to keep the signs in their hearts? What? They aren't told that, they are told that if they are wise enough to use Gematria then figure out the number of the man. Sweet Louise, this is an instruction just like the one given to Daniel, or to the Apostles to get out of Dodge once they see armies surrounding Jerusalem, or John being told to break open the book, and leave it open. My lands, I'm the literalist here.
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  #46  
Old 12-13-2019, 08:03 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

Now, I know brother Blume and probably brother Benincasa will disagree with me on this subject. But my current understanding, based on my studies over the years, is that 666 is the Greek gematria for LATEINOS ("the Latin man" or "the Latin one"). The particular gematria isn't the whole thing, however, it is just one piece of a puzzle if you will. There are a number of identifying marks that appertain to "the beast" which must be taken together as a whole. Some entity or person may have one or even some of those features, but that doesn't mean anything. It's when an entity matches ALL those marks that you have a positive ID.

When one looks closely at all the data, one realises the "mark of the beast" is not a computer chip, nor is it a future event. Rather it has been around for a long long time and yes, still is around.

The mark was something John saw in a symbolic vision. The symbolic visions of the Apocalypse reveal literal spiritual truths by means of signs and symbols. The mark he saw was a literal engraving of a name or the number of that name in the hand or forehead. This is the symbol. What then is the spiritual truth?

First of all, it clearly denotes a SIGN OF OWNERSHIP, ALLEGIANCE, and AGREEMENT. The mark is a token or sign of being owned by the beast, being loyal to the beast, or being in agreement (covenant) with the beast.

In the law, God's covenant with Israel had several SIGNS. One of those was His commandments, statutes, judgments, ordinances, laws, etc. Another was His liturgical calendar, consisting of the weekly Sabbath and the annual sabbaths and feast days. BOTH of these signs or tokens were said to be to the Israelites like "frontlets between your eyes and upon your hand", that is, they were a sign in the forehead and hand.

The beast has its laws, commandments, statutes, judgments, etc - that is to say, it's own doctrine and prescribed Law - as well as its own liturgical calendar (holy days). Those who receive the mark of the beast are those who submit to the Law and the calendar of the beast. They think how the beast wants them to think, they live according a prescribed ethic given by the beast, they follow religion that is given them by the beast. Instead of following God, His Word, His ways.

Those with the mark are contrasted in the visions with those who have the mark of God. This mark is in the forehead (not "the forehead or hand"), recalling Ezekiel's vision of the true saints being marked in their forehead as belonging to God. God's servants don't just follow God with outward action, it's genuine and internal. The beast's followers don't have to be "true believers", they just need to submit in their actions, they can be marked in EITHER the forehead OR the hand.

The phylacteries of rabbinical Judaism are a type (albeit unintentionally) of the mark of the beast, and yes there is a connection between them.

A required microchip demanded by a government is likewise a type of the mark. That is, it resembles the mark in that it is an attempted identifying mark of ownership. But chips are not, in themselves, the actual mark of the beast. THAT consists in a spurious form of paganism masquerading as Christianity, and those who follow the laws and calendar of that spurious religion are those who receive the mark of the beast.

666, as a reference to "LATEINOS", identifies one of the signs or clues as to the identity of this beast. It is Latin (Roman) in origin and character, culture, etc. Long story short it is the Roman system that prevailed across Europe for over a millennia and which STILL prevails in western civilisation, epitomised by the Roman Catholic Church (the Vatican and its global financial, religious, and political empire), all its Protestant daughters, and modern "republican" forms of government which are all continuations of Roman civil and canon law and jurisprudence, and which are controlled by a collection of wealthy families who trace their lineage back to BOTH the Imperial Flavian family AND the family of HEROD THE GREAT.
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Last edited by Esaias; 12-13-2019 at 08:10 PM.
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  #47  
Old 12-13-2019, 08:42 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Old 12-13-2019, 08:51 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Latinos
Lol, funny.

If that was the case though does that mean the image of the beast is a pinata?
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:07 PM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Lol, funny.

If that was the case though does that mean the image of the beast is a pinata?
Just don’t tell em that the pope is the Antichrist
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  #50  
Old 12-14-2019, 08:44 AM
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Re: Dr. Oz Promotes RFID Microchip Implants For Pe

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Now, I know brother Blume and probably brother Benincasa will disagree with me on this subject. But my current understanding, based on my studies over the years, is that 666 is the Greek gematria for LATEINOS ("the Latin man" or "the Latin one").
Yup, that was Irenćus opinion as well.
Another modern opinion is that the greek letters in the manuscript does look a lot like the abbreviation that the Islam use for "In the Name of Allah". This hypothesis came from a ex-muslin.

Last edited by coksiw; 12-14-2019 at 08:55 AM.
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