Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon
I am sympathetic with many of the things you have expressed. I don't, however, think the average person is going to be persuaded. Women whom I know who wear pants aren't trying to be men or rule over their husbands. Nothing could be said to them to convince them that they are the pawns in a great struggle to overthrow traditional morality.
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As per usual Costeon is no longer holding a discussion with the poster he is quoting (me
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If anyone is interested I brought up that it is a symbol of authority and masculinity. Whether Costeon's girlfriends are pious Sadhu with begging bowls, the pants they have on are symbols of masculinity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon
A problem in the quote above is that you're implying women in dresses wasn't the norm before 1000 AD. The point is this: if it is ever conceded that fashions ever changed then there is no justification to fix a particular era as the norm going forward.
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Here Costeon brings in an assumption of what I believe. Doesn't ask for any clarification. Little reminiscent of ZOGhasfallen
But women in all points of history looked like women, the καταστολή is what Paul describes the female garment to look like
1 Timothy 2:9. The Greek word καταστολή is still used in modern Greek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon
Non-Pentecostals with whom I have discussed Deut 22:5 (and perhaps weren't even aware before of the verse)
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If they are clueless about the verse, wouldn't they therefore be clueless about its meaning? I mean who cares what the rank and file Bible dabbler thinks about any verse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon
universally have thought it was forbidding crossdressing/transvestitism. That is, it is forbidding the practice of someone trying to pass themselves off as a member of the other gender. That's what I thought when I first read it. Most people are likely going to feel repulsed by this behavior and would naturally understand that Deut 22:5 says it is an abomination to God. The problem is that there is just not enough information to know exactly what is being forbidden. At any rate it is not clearly forbidding clothing that is remotely similar to the other gender's. Yes there must be some distinction and it should not be possible to confuse someone for the opposite gender by the way they are dressed. This can be done with women in pants.
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People really do need a Bible that has a do and do not list on every page. But,
Deuteronomy 22:5 is internal, and external. She wears the pants in the family, weren't just about pants or trousers. It was about the whole female authority over men. Rosie the Riveter strong like bull, and smart like tractor, issues in this country. Where female leadership, all the way up to the presidency is a possible thing. Let's face it, we are in decline and most churches can't crawl out of the cultural tar pit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon
The ultimate point of this thread is there are no other passages in Scripture apparently that would demand that garments be radically different for each gender. At least none have really been put forward.
And why limit this to skirts and pants? If this is wrong then it is wrong for men and women to wear any clothes that are similar. Can a woman wear a t-shirt, a button down shirt?
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I Timothy 2:9 tells us what the Apostle Paul was looking for in a woman's clothing. But also emphasizes her behavior as in
I Peter 3:1-4. You are living in a world where you are at its twilight, there are so many voices which will tell you exactly what you want to hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon
The bottom line is trousers are no longer exclusively masculine attire, and that has been so for many decades now, so they are no longer forbidden for women as long as she is not trying to actually present herself as a man.
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Bottom line homosexualityy is no longer forbidden in this country. Matter of fact men can marry men, and women can marry women. High schools must allow transgender students to compete in any sport. Frog in the kettle buddy boy, just plain old frog in the kettle. Pants on women are masculine, everyone knows this especially sinners, but sinners are usually smarter than Christians because they have nothing to hide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon
I know we won't agree on this, but I appreciate all the information you have presented.
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Yeah, sure.