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  #81  
Old 06-10-2014, 05:46 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Who can share more insight as to the NW area before this transpired? Sabby? Was there this friction before then?

My understanding is that BEFORE Fisher took over, there was already concern about CBC. The concern did not start with Fisher, but escalated afterward.
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  #82  
Old 06-10-2014, 05:47 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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Would it matter that some were demonized because that they happen to believe the PCI view, and were unable to do their job because they were constantly being called on the carpet by those officials that were imports into the Northwestern (PCI) culture? Maybe the were driven mad.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence of what you speak until the above had gone on for years?
I think it speaks to a very lonely existence, with feelings of more and more hopelessness. If you are without hope, what...if anything...matters?

Br Epley, that was a cheap shot.
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  #83  
Old 06-10-2014, 05:53 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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He does include this about Fisher in the book. He appears to try and show warts and all and not only play up what may be considered good.
He is not covering for anyone, seems he is trying to tell the whole story, which is what a historian should do. I'm sure some on both sides will criticize the book.
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  #84  
Old 06-10-2014, 05:54 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

Had he omitted that piece of his life, his book certainly would have been dismissed by anyone who knew.
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  #85  
Old 06-10-2014, 06:00 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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Had he omitted that piece of his life, his book certainly would have been dismissed by anyone who knew.
Your "he" and "his(s)" are confusing.
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  #86  
Old 06-10-2014, 06:02 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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Who can share more insight as to the NW area before this transpired? Sabby? Was there this friction before then?

My understanding is that BEFORE Fisher took over, there was already concern about CBC. The concern did not start with Fisher, but escalated afterward.
Yes, the missionaries (the imports from California) were already doing their work, undermining the support and finances for CBC. Fisher's leadership just intensified their efforts.
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Old 06-10-2014, 06:03 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

My apologies. Had Fudge omitted that piece of Fisher's life, Fudge's book certainly would have been dismissed by anyone who knew.
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  #88  
Old 06-10-2014, 06:12 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

But what about the NW before any difficulties at CBC? Was there similar friction and division?
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Old 06-10-2014, 06:19 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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But what about the NW before any difficulties at CBC? Was there similar friction and division?
I believe it had been building for years between then with the demise of CBC, and then the Westburg Resolution, the PCI were effectively ousted. The majority view in the UPC, contended for their view to the division of the body.
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Old 06-10-2014, 06:21 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

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Who can share more insight as to the NW area before this transpired? Sabby? Was there this friction before then?

My understanding is that BEFORE Fisher took over, there was already concern about CBC. The concern did not start with Fisher, but escalated afterward.
You had better believe it. My senior year 79-80, the CBC Chorale was having a service in Twin Falls, Idaho at Carroll Magruder's church. Because it was a school function the DS's were there. Charley Yadon from Washington, Norman Rutzen from Idaho, Winifred Toole from Oregon, and Ralph Reynolds the school president (he came out of retirement to replace John Klemin).
Rutzen (as the host DS) invited the two other DSs onto the platform, had them all hold hands. He got them moving their hands back and forth and asked everyone in the congregation to "sing" with them, "When we allllll pull together, together, together, when we alllll pull together, how happy we'll be!"
One of the moderators (can't remember which one) got their tongue tangled while mentioning the HISTORY of CBC, and said something very similar to Historicist (not a real timely word to use!) Magruder took the mike after that gentleman and said something to the effect "we'll not have any of that around here"....

The choir director for that event and that school year was Jerry Dillon. He had been on the staff for many years. He was rumored to be non-dispensationalist. Years later Alvin Cobb told me Dillon's eschatology was the same as Br Nigh's.
Jerry got himself into trouble with the Portland area pastors in a class of his I enrolled in called Bible Lands and Customs. This was around the time a Br Johnson (I believe) from California preached the Oregon District Youth Camp meeting, probably '78 or '79. In the class, Jerry taught the hebrew meaning of worship of which he explained to be like a dog licking its master's hand. He criticized those that claimed worship was like running the aisles, rolling on the floor, or dancing feverishly with eyes closed, saying that it might be praise but was not worship. This lit a fuse with a couple of our male students, one in particular. A couple of the students took strong difference with him and would later talk to their pastors (Barlow, Dugas, etc) about the heretic teaching at the bible college.
Back to Br Johnson. He preached at this youth camp, and in one of his sermons he said something to the effect that "God doesn't care if all you have is a bucket of rocks to worship Him with!" The one particular student I mentioned about took it upon himself to spray paint an empty Folger's can, fill it with rocks (not pebbles) and took it upon himself to shake it in our chapel services much like someone would shake a tambourine. It was very obnoxious and it was impossible to truly worship (and very hard to sincerely praise) with cement factory going on.
To this day I can't understand why no one in the school administration did not have the courage to tell him that rocks are not allowed. I have to believe they were fearful of the repercussions.
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