History of Tithes in the Church

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some are not listening, brother. What they are speaking against is not what you are saying, but what some WANT you to be saying because they can shoot down their concept of what is wrong, but not what you or I are actually saying.

I caught Coksiw in a distinct example of NOT EVEN READING WHAT I SAID when this chat went on:



When people have been drilled into one form of belief that they are solely fighting, and they do not actually read what you are saying, they do not address your thoughts, but rather just that stuck-in-the-mind thought that no one here is actually proposing.

I distinctly said that bartering was a PART of their commerce, and later clarified that by saying the other part was CASH and MONEY, it was given a response as though I never said CASH was involved as well. And so Coksiw said, "I showed you money was use a lot as well, so the comparison you are using is misleading.." NEVER did I EVER say MONEY was not involved, too.

Without people properly addressing your points, you cannot relate to them your thoughts.

One time one brother and I on this forum discussed the calendars of timelines for the years that comprise Daniel's 70 weeks on until the point when Jesus arrived in time. The brother mocked my timeline that I used and quoted it and said that it distinctly said something as ridiculous as it even shows Jesus born December 25. What he failed to notice was that in the ebook that I told him about that included the timeline I agreed with, the author INCLUDED the alternative timeline that this brother agreed with. And the actual one that included Dec. 25 as the birth day of Jesus was that which HE AGREED WITH! He thought it was mine, since he thought the entire book did not quote his as well as the one I agreed with. He failed to notice that HIS TIMELINE said that Jesus was born Dec, 25!

It was actually several DAYS, maybe an entire WEEK, that I repeated over and over again that it was the TIMELINE with which HE AGREED that he was citing, as quoted in the book as error. I saw he was not responding to my note, and then he started continuing his mockery of MY timeline, that was actually HIS, and FINALLY HE SAW WHAT I WAS TRYING TO TELL HIM! He was so thrilled that he thought he had me in a corner with some ridiculous timeline that said Jesus was born Dec 25, and he kept mocking me for it, that HE DID NOT REALIZE IT WAS HIS TIMELINE that he had been arguing with me was the correct one. Think of it!

But when he saw what I said and actually TOO TIME TO READ MY WORDS, he went silent for a week or so. (The chat should still be on this forum!) Then he backpeddled and boy (!), did I ever hold his feet to the fire for that one! Woohoo!

This is what is happening here with you from SOME, not ALL. But Coksiw, for sure. And yet these guys never responded to me with their exegesis of 1 Cor 9 when one of them said THEY WOULD! But the red herring mockery will continue while they ignore their flubs. Again, I am NOT speaking about all who disagree with us here. It's just two of them, and Coksiw is one. No offence intended.

So, you made your point, and I made mine. But, thankfully there are others reading that will greatly benefit these words!

Yes it appears that way sometimes. When we type things people don’t always get our stance, so I want to try to be thorough. I don’t know where else to go from there, if they don’t think I am being honest in my explanation. There have been many offenses over money and I am sure that is all the more reason why that many are passionate over these subjects.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Yes it appears that way sometimes. When we type things people don’t always get our stance, so I want to try to be thorough. I don’t know where else to go from there, if they don’t think I am being honest in my explanation. There have been many offenses over money and I am sure that is all the more reason why that many are passionate over these subjects.

That is the very thing that I have seen over these discussions. When it's about MONEY, money is such a huge thing to people that they always fuss over it because they've been offended due to a love for it. Esaias and Votivesoul get our point. But not the others.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

This is what I have been trying to say all along this thread. Some people can be guilty of becoming as wrong as the people they stand against. Telling someone they can’t tithe or teach the topic of tithes, can be just as legalistic as telling someone that they must tithe.

One can give a tenth of their income, but it's not biblical tithes. I don't think that even exist anymore. It can be a good guide to go by though

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

This is what I have been trying to say all along this thread. Some people can be guilty of becoming as wrong as the people they stand against. Telling someone they can’t tithe or teach the topic of tithes, can be just as legalistic as telling someone that they must tithe.

I never said you can't tithe, but I did say teaching tithing of your all income as a Biblical doctrine, that it is God's will or perfect will, is an error. People are free to tithe voluntarily, but in reality, they tithe because they have been persuaded with false doctrine to do so.

[coksiw]

It is a false doctrine. Period. It has been exposed with Bible and with Historical Facts.

Some in this thread (which happen to be pastors who receive tithes) keep insisting it is OK to teach the false doctrine, even with a "soft stand" by not making it a hell issue, but still a prosperity doctrine. They even play it down as not that big of a deal.

False doctrine is a big deal. Truth is a big deal.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

That's all it is. A good guide to go by.

And it doesn't matter if it's biblical tithes. It just matters that we give. Tithes was a law under the old covenant. that's what we're trying to say.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by coksiw

It is a false doctrine. Period. It has been exposed with Bible and with Historical Facts.

Some in this thread (which happen to be pastors who receive tithes) keep insisting it is OK to teach the false doctrine, even with a "soft stand" by not making it a hell issue, but still a prosperity doctrine. They even play it down as not that big of a deal.

False doctrine is a big deal. Truth is a big deal.

You can sure dance the twist. No one is teaching it is a doctrine. The only doctrine there is is to give in faith and God will bless. Period. You really cannot debate with hitting a strawman, can you?

But even this statement will get twisted.

whatever.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You can sure dance the twist. No one is teaching it is a doctrine. The only doctrine there is is to give in faith and God will bless. Period. You really cannot debate with hitting a strawman, can you?

But even this statement will get twisted.

whatever.

The problem is a lot of teachers don't teach "giving", they teach "tithing". They point to the law, to Abraham, to Jacob, and then point to everybody's weekly paycheck, and say "tithes, give 10%, God honours faithful giving", so the message is actually "Give 10% of your income from whatever source derived, be sure not to rob God see Malachi" ... pretty much like the IRS to be honest.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The problem is a lot of teachers don't teach "giving", they teach "tithing". They point to the law, to Abraham, to Jacob, and then point to everybody's weekly paycheck, and say "tithes, give 10%, God honours faithful giving", so the message is actually "Give 10% of your income from whatever source derived, be sure not to rob God see Malachi" ... pretty much like the IRS to be honest.

I agree, but my insistence to these brethren that my particular view is not a "tithe doctrine" is simply falling on deaf ears, and repeating it may hopefully one day help that problem.

[coksiw]

Easy: Doctrine is teaching, if you teach it is doctrine.