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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #11  
Old 01-12-2020, 04:06 PM
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Re: Death defeated at resurrection or not defeated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armapeet.Singh View Post
The death that we are resurrected from is spiritual.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The work of the cross was to resurrect us from our dead state to a living state. A state away from our sins.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures:

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Here we see that the resurrection from the dead is absolutely tied into our redemption from from our dead state and our deliverance from our sins.

We partake of the death through repentance, the burial through baptism, and the resurrection through the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

The doctrine of the physical is the doctrine of the pharisees.
Acts 23:6-8 KJV
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question. [7] And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided. [8] For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Acts 24:10-15 KJV
Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself: [11] Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship. [12] And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city: [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: [15] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:09 PM
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Re: Death defeated at resurrection or not defeated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armapeet.Singh View Post
The death that we are resurrected from is spiritual.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Paul wrote about a resurrection that he and every believer experiences when they are saved, in Romans But in 1 cor 15 he spoke of a resurrection THAT WAS YET TO OCCUR IN HIS FUTURE, so it cannot be the resurrection of Romans 6.

Quote:

The work of the cross was to resurrect us from our dead state to a living state. A state away from our sins.
More correctly, we were dead in trespasses and sins, and we are resurrected from that when we are saved.

Quote:

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures:

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Here we see that the resurrection from the dead is absolutely tied into our redemption from from our dead state and our deliverance from our sins.
That is not what Paul spoke about. When we continue to read 1 Cor 15, we read that it was future, not in the past as Paul's salvation was in the past when he wrote.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24.. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ..(23).. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. ..(24).. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Paul said that the resurrection of this chapter had not yet happened, and would happen in his future AT CHRIST'S COMING. Jesus had not come yet when Paul wrote this. HE said that when this resurrection occurs, then also occurs when the kingdom is given over to the Father. Death is defeated when Jesus comes because the resurrection takes bodies that were and/or can be killed and makes them immortal. So His coming to resurrect saints brings the end. The end had not yet occurred in Paul's day and it has still not occurred.

1 Corinthians 15:30-32.. And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? ..(31).. I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. ..(32).. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Paul then said above that he risked his physical life in his ministry and stood in jeopardy every hour. He did this because he knew that if he should physically be killed, the dead would later rise and he would live again. This resurrection, therefore, is not speaking about Paul's salvation that occurred decades before he wrote this letter. It was still in Paul's future because he said that if there was not resurrection in his future, then he was acting insanely by risking his life rather than protect it and not let any danger come. This proves this resurrection is not the one that takes place at salvation as Romans 6 is speaking about.

Quote:

We partake of the death through repentance, the burial through baptism, and the resurrection through the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

The doctrine of the physical is the doctrine of the pharisees.
This is completely wrong and I just proved it by pointing out that the resurrection of salvation took place in Paul's past, but the resurrection of 1 Cor 15 had not yet taken place because Paul said he looked forward to it, and proved that he believed that it would happen in his future by risking his life . If he risked his life, he trusted that he would be raised again later in the resurrection. LATER. That view has absolutely no basis in this chapter as if Paul already resurrected in this manner years before he wrote it.
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Last edited by mfblume; 01-12-2020 at 07:22 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2020, 07:03 PM
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Re: Death defeated at resurrection or not defeated

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Paul wrote about a resurrection that he and every believer experiences when they are saved, in Romans But in ! cor 15 he spoke of a resurrection THAT WAS YET TO OCCUR IN HIS FUTURE, so it cannot be the resurrection of Romans 6.



More correctly, we were dead in trespasses and sins, and we are resurrected from that when we are saved.



That is not what Paul spoke about. When we continue to read 1 Cor 15, we read that it was future, not in the past as Paul's salvation was in the past when he wrote.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24.. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ..(23).. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. ..(24).. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Paul said that the resurrection of this chapter had not yet happened, and would happen in his future AT CHRIST'S COMING. Jesus had not come yet when Paul wrote this. HE said that when this resurrection occurs, then also occurs when the kingdom is given over to the Father. Death is defeated when Jesus comes because the resurrection takes bodies that were and/or can be killed and makes them immortal. So His coming to resurrect saints brings the end. The end had not yet occurred in Paul's day and it has still not occurred.

1 Corinthians 15:30-32.. And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? ..(31).. I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. ..(32).. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Paul then said above that he risked his physical life in his ministry and stood in jeopardy every hour. He did this because he knew that if he should physically be killed, the dead would later rise and he would live again. This resurrection, therefore, is not speaking about Paul's salvation that occurred decades before he wrote this letter. It was still in Paul's future because he said that if there was not resurrection in his future, then he was acting insanely by risking his life rather than protect it and not let any danger come. This proves this resurrection is not the one that takes place at salvation as Romans 6 is speaking about.



This is completely wrong and I just proved it by pointing out that the resurrection of salvation took place in Paull's past, but the resurrection of 1 Cor 15 had not yet taken place because Paul said he looked forward to it, and proved that he believed that it would happen in his future by risking his . If he risked his life, he trusted that he would be raised again later in the resurrection. LATER. Your view has absolutely no basis in this chapter as if Paul already resurrected in this manner years before he wrote it.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:35 PM
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Re: Death defeated at resurrection or not defeated

I believe the physical body is resurrected but what about the cremated scattered body or the body eaten by wild animals or the body cut into pieces and sent to different tribes...?
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  #15  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:45 PM
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Re: Death defeated at resurrection or not defeated

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
I believe the physical body is resurrected but what about the cremated scattered body or the body eaten by wild animals or the body cut into pieces and sent to different tribes...?
If God's plan is to raise the dead, then I doubt the particular state or extent of decay matters.
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  #16  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:24 PM
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Re: Death defeated at resurrection or not defeated

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If God's plan is to raise the dead, then I doubt the particular state or extent of decay matters.
Amen. All that we know is that He will do it.
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