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  #21  
Old 03-27-2014, 04:10 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

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Originally Posted by Carl View Post
Michael, I've always heard the passage in Mark chapter 9, verses 42-48, which says "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." as proof that gehenna and thus punishment is forever. Any thoughts or opinions on this?
Also consider that Hebrew word that we derive the meaning of "forever" from.

Case in point.

Jonah 2:1-6

2:1 Then Jonah prayed to Yahweh, his God, out of the fish’s belly. 2:2 He said,
“I called because of my affliction to Yahweh. He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried. You heard my voice. 2:3 For you threw me into the depths, in the heart of the seas. The flood was all around me. All your waves and your billows passed over me. 2:4 I said, ‘I have been banished from your sight; yet I will look again toward your holy temple.’ 2:5 The waters surrounded me, even to the soul. The deep was around me. The weeds were wrapped around my head. 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains. The earth barred me in forever: yet have you brought up my life from the pit, Yahweh my God.

Verse 2 Jonah cries out from Sheol. That is "Hell" in the KJV.

Verse 6 he says he was there FOREVER!

And yet we have it on the authority of Yeshua Christ he was there 3 days!

12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt 1240

Which one was right? They both were! The word forever in Hebrew can go all the way from as short as three days to infinity or "the vanishing point".
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  #22  
Old 03-27-2014, 04:10 PM
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Disciple4life Disciple4life is offline
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

Michael the Disciple,

I have a question. I read somewhere that the first four or five hundred years of the church, there were saints who were annihilationist, universalist and eternal punishment. There were different opinions. Do you know anything about this?
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  #23  
Old 03-27-2014, 04:37 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

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Originally Posted by Disciple4life View Post
Michael the Disciple,

I have a question. I read somewhere that the first four or five hundred years of the church, there were saints who were annihilationist, universalist and eternal punishment. There were different opinions. Do you know anything about this?
I have read the same. Once the apostles died there was a falling away from truth. Over the next few centuries there were "saints" that were Oneness, Trinitarian, Binitarian, and Arian.
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  #24  
Old 03-30-2014, 05:36 PM
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Scott Hutchinson Scott Hutchinson is offline
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

One must study what the word perish means before drawing hard and fast conclusions.
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  #25  
Old 03-31-2014, 12:03 PM
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

Somebody's conscious somewhere and suffering.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
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  #26  
Old 03-31-2014, 05:25 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
Somebody's conscious somewhere and suffering.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Outer darkness is a Biblical metaphor for "death". Yes when the glories of the kingdom of God are fully revealed and the wicked see it on the day of judgment they will wail and gnash their teeth.

They could have been there. They could have put on immortality. But now they are sentenced to the furnace of fire, from which there is no coming back.
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2014, 05:35 PM
justlookin justlookin is offline
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Outer darkness is a Biblical metaphor for "death". Yes when the glories of the kingdom of God are fully revealed and the wicked see it on the day of judgment they will wail and gnash their teeth.

They could have been there. They could have put on immortality. But now they are sentenced to the furnace of fire, from which there is no coming back.
The point was, there is suffering for the unbeliever (not it makes me happy). There is torment for a period of time, however long or short that might be.
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  #28  
Old 04-01-2014, 12:59 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
The point was, there is suffering for the unbeliever (not it makes me happy). There is torment for a period of time, however long or short that might be.
Most annihilationists agree to that.
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