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  #71  
Old 10-06-2020, 10:56 AM
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TJJJ TJJJ is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by 1 God View Post
That is not what col 2:9 teaches. God did not prepare a Spirit body to fully indwell Himself. The body of Jesus therefore is omnipresent for God to indwell.
Really? You really believe that the body of Christ is omnipresent? That is the first time I have ever heard someone say that.

There is of course great problems with the doctrine you are espousing. You have now made the BODY God. Bad theology.

The Bible says that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself. It doesnt say that God was Christ.
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  #72  
Old 10-06-2020, 11:28 AM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
Then maybe you want to trade binitarian for Nestorian!?
Thank you for the suggestion. I'll have to give that some thought.

I guess I didn't think of that before because I have been thinking of and comparing how the Godhead overall is explained in Trinitarianism and Oneness, rather than comparing how they explain the Son of God, which I guess is when I may have thought of Nestorianism. I see your point though. Maybe since we are dealing with a divine Person and a human person and not just two divine Persons, "nestorian" is the better term.

When I hear many Oneness people describe God, what they are saying is, in effect, similar to how Trinitarians describe God, minus one Person.

Trinitarianism
He is one Being existing as three divine Persons who are in personal relationship. The name for the Being is God. "God" is the larger category. The names/titles of the persons are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Oneness
He is one Being existing as two Persons, one divine, one human, who are in personal relationship. The name of the Being is Jesus. "Jesus" is the larger category. The names/titles of the Persons are Father/Holy Spirit and Son

I say Jesus is the "larger category" because people say "Jesus is the Father" and "Jesus is the Son," but not "the Father is the Son."
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  #73  
Old 10-06-2020, 11:44 AM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Thank you for the suggestion. I'll have to give that some thought.

I guess I didn't think of that before because I have been thinking of and comparing how the Godhead overall is explained in Trinitarianism and Oneness, rather than comparing how they explain the Son of God, which I guess is when I may have thought of Nestorianism. I see your point though. Maybe since we are dealing with a divine Person and a human person and not just two divine Persons, "nestorian" is the better term.

When I hear many Oneness people describe God, what they are saying is, in effect, similar to how Trinitarians describe God, minus one Person.

Trinitarianism
He is one Being existing as three divine Persons who are in personal relationship. The name for the Being is God. "God" is the larger category. The names/titles of the persons are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Oneness
He is one Being existing as two Persons, one divine, one human, who are in personal relationship. The name of the Being is Jesus. "Jesus" is the larger category. The names/titles of the Persons are Father/Holy Spirit and Son

I say Jesus is the "larger category" because people say "Jesus is the Father" and "Jesus is the Son," but not "the Father is the Son."
I have never been taught nor have I heard anyone call God a "person". I have understood it as manifestations.
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  #74  
Old 10-06-2020, 12:23 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I believe in "modalism". In one mode of being Jesus is YAH. Yet.....since the Logos was made flesh YAH simultaneously and in another mode of being ALSO exists as a distinct man.
If I understand you correctly, Jesus exists in two different ways, or modes, and these two different ways of existence are entirely distinct. The God Mode and the Man Mode can be and are in personal relationship with each other. Despite the appearance of a relationship between two different persons, only one person is really involved but in two modes. Correct?

Since Jesus is the God Mode and the Man Mode, then when Jesus prayed, he really was praying to himself, one of His Modes praying to the other Mode. Correct?

When the Son says he only speaks what the Father tells him, the God Mode is telling the Man Mode what to say? Correct?

In the Man Mode, it seems you're saying he is only a man like us, that is, the Son is not divinity and humanity, but only humanity (except he does not have a fallen nature and does not sin.) Correct?

Finally, I've noticed you use "Yah" instead of "Yahweh." I know this shortened form is used some in the OT, but "Yahweh" seems to be used thousands of times. Could you explain the significance of your use of "Yah"? I'm wondering if I understood that if that would help me to better understand your view.
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  #75  
Old 10-06-2020, 12:28 PM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
If I understand you correctly, Jesus exists in two different ways, or modes, and these two different ways of existence are entirely distinct. The God Mode and the Man Mode can be and are in personal relationship with each other. Despite the appearance of a relationship between two different persons, only one person is really involved but in two modes. Correct?

Since Jesus is the God Mode and the Man Mode, then when Jesus prayed, he really was praying to himself, one of His Modes praying to the other Mode. Correct?

When the Son says he only speaks what the Father tells him, the God Mode is telling the Man Mode what to say? Correct?

In the Man Mode, it seems you're saying he is only a man like us, that is, the Son is not divinity and humanity, but only humanity (except he does not have a fallen nature and does not sin.) Correct?

Finally, I've noticed you use "Yah" instead of "Yahweh." I know this shortened form is used some in the OT, but "Yahweh" seems to be used thousands of times. Could you explain the significance of your use of "Yah"? I'm wondering if I understood that if that would help me to better understand your view.
Oh boy, EB and MTD about to get into the ring in 3,2,...
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  #76  
Old 10-06-2020, 12:30 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I have never been taught nor have I heard anyone call God a "person". I have understood it as manifestations.
I wonder why, since God and Christ act in personal ways and relate to each other as persons--individuals with their own wills, self-consciousnesses, emotions, etc.

Is God a manifestation? Do manifestations interact in personal ways? Manifestations has always sounded abstract to me.
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  #77  
Old 10-06-2020, 12:31 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
Oh boy, EB and MTD about to get into the ring in 3,2,...
uh oh . . .

I'm not sure what I've done. :-)
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  #78  
Old 10-06-2020, 12:41 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
I wonder why, since God and Christ act in personal ways and relate to each other as persons--individuals with their own wills, self-consciousnesses, emotions, etc.

Is God a manifestation? Do manifestations interact in personal ways? Manifestations has always sounded abstract to me.
Sure, God is a manifestation. He walked in the cool of the day in Genesis. That means that He walked on the wind. He is a spirit. He would have to manifest Himself for His presence to be known - Holy Ghost.

Isn't Jesus simply a vessel that God acts through, such as us? I would use vessel and not "man mode". Everything He did was for our example to show us the way. That must be true as in Ephesians 5:1-2 and in I Cor. 11:1, we are admonished to be "followers/imitators" of Jesus Christ. Corinthians references imitating God and Ephesians references imitating Jesus Christ.

The Apostles had no problem calling Him the same, while using God and Christ. We are simply missing something very deep, and yet very simple, wrangling over proper terminology, IMO.

I thought that it was interesting, on the other thread, Praying to Father or Jesus?, after I looked over Acts 4 more closely. It looks like to me that everyone was more interested in the NAME than they were the body of Jesus Christ. That is certainly interesting, as we know the NAME represents who He is.

Quote:
There is a lot to unpack in Acts 4.

It is all about the NAME.

verse1-2 - Sadducees angry because they don't believe in a resurrection, so the NAME is verboten to them.

verse 7 - By what power and what NAME are you doing all of this?

verse 10 - it is by that the NAME of Jesus Christ that you crucified whom God raised from the dead.

verse 11 - this is the stone which was rejected by you builders - referencing Psalm 118:22. Note my previous post showing that Jah is Jesus - Psalms 118:114

verse 12 - no salvation in any other NAME, no other NAME given....speaks to Isaiah 43:11

verses 24-31 - they are quoting Psalms 2 prophesying of the coming Messiah - the NAME

Through all of that discourse, they have acknowledged that GOD is the one doing all of this, and that He alone has the power to allow them to use the NAME that was given. They say that they want God to allow healing, signs and wonders "through" that NAME.

By quoting Psalm 118, taking the whole psalm into account, they very well knew they had a NAME that meant something. And I believe it was more about the NAME, than the body.
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Last edited by Pressing-On; 10-06-2020 at 12:50 PM.
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  #79  
Old 10-06-2020, 01:52 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

Anyone want to address the the godhead isn’t a thing? It should read that the fullness of deity was in Christ bodily.
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  #80  
Old 10-06-2020, 02:52 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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If I understand you correctly, Jesus exists in two different ways, or modes, and these two different ways of existence are entirely distinct. The God Mode and the Man Mode can be and are in personal relationship with each other. Despite the appearance of a relationship between two different persons, only one person is really involved but in two modes. Correct?
Yes Jesus exists in two distinct ways or "modes of being". This is clearly seen in John 3:13

In one way he was on Earth talking to Nic. In another way he was living in Heaven.

Dont forget 1 Tim. 2:5

Quote:
For there is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus.
If Jesus is God this is referring to him as God. If there is ONE GOD and Jesus is God no other God exists. IMO Jesus is God because he is YAH. If he is not YAH he is not God at all.

So we establish Jesus is the one God. And yet......he is as a man the only mediator between God and men. So the thing to let sink in is ITS BOTH HIM.

Now Oneness and Trinity both accept Jesus is BOTH God and man but its how that IS that is hard to understand.

They obviously exist simultaneously. That allows us to read scripture as it is written for us Oneness instead of having to pretend like all the verses that speak of God WITH Jesus are only to be interpreted as him as the Father.

Yes he is the Father but he is still the man Christ Jesus.

There seems to be a real relationship between God and Christ not just the "appearance" of one.

So I guess I agree that what you have written is very close to the way I see it.

Quote:
Since Jesus is the God Mode and the Man Mode, then when Jesus prayed, he really was praying to himself, one of His Modes praying to the other Mode. Correct?
Seems that way. Other than by way of qualification of saying that it is his humanity praying to his deity. The man Jesus praying to his Father YAH.

Quote:
When the Son says he only speaks what the Father tells him, the God Mode is telling the Man Mode what to say? Correct?

In the Man Mode, it seems you're saying he is only a man like us, that is, the Son is not divinity and humanity, but only humanity (except he does not have a fallen nature and does not sin.) Correct?
Jesus said he only spoke what he was told amen. God was speaking to God manifest in the flesh, the man.

I wont go as far as to say the Son is not divinity because in another mode of being he is. But in his humanity he is not God. He is the MEDIATOR between God and men.

Quote:
Finally, I've noticed you use "Yah" instead of "Yahweh." I know this shortened form is used some in the OT, but "Yahweh" seems to be used thousands of times. Could you explain the significance of your use of "Yah"? I'm wondering if I understood that if that would help me to better understand your view.
I use YAH because of the controversy between Yahweh and Jehovah. I studied it a lot. Just when I embraced one or the other someone would make what seemed a better point for the other. Since I dont have the knowledge to track down every link to every source and understand them all I settled for the short version as per Psalms 68:4

Best I know YAH is the short version of either Yahweh OR Jehovah.

Also YAH is in the name of many Biblical people as in IAH.

JeremIAH, IsaIAH, JosIAH, ZecharIAH, ZephinIAH, HezekIAH, ect.

The IAH was not coincidental.

Finally YAH appears 4 times in Revelation 19 as being our God.

So in my understanding in his deity Jesus is YAH the only God. Another way of putting it is YAH IS JESUS.
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