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  #91  
Old 10-13-2020, 01:21 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
While it is true that natures aren't hyostases, it is also true that natures do not exist except as hypostases. (Speaking of rational natures, of course. But even otherwise, a nature does not exist apart from an individual instance, which in the case of a rational nature, would be called a person.)
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  #92  
Old 10-13-2020, 05:53 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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I agree. Which is why it doesn't really work for Oneness believers to describe Jesus as one person with two natures. The two "natures" are in dialogue and relationship with one another. In other words, the Father and Son interact as persons.

To speak of a divine nature and a human nature does work for Trinitarians since in their doctrine of the hypostatic union the natures are not related to each other in a personal way. The personal relationship is just between God the Father and God the Son incarnate.
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  #93  
Old 10-14-2020, 01:46 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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I agree. Which is why it doesn't really work for Oneness believers to describe Jesus as one person with two natures. The two "natures" are in dialogue and relationship with one another. In other words, the Father and Son interact as persons.

To speak of a divine nature and a human nature does work for Trinitarians since in their doctrine of the hypostatic union the natures are not related to each other in a personal way. The personal relationship is just between God the Father and God the Son incarnate.
The trinitarian version "works" because the entire discussion is framed by them, metaphysically, to work in their favour.

Is God in fact a hypostasis?

If we define a hypostasis as "an individual instance of rational nature" then by default God is a hypostasis. If on the other hand we acknowledge that God is beyond such limitations and definitions supplied by heathen philosophers, then perhaps God is not a hypostasis per se, in the way folks like to think of such things. Perhaps God is beyond hypostasis, but exists AS the hypostasis of "the Logos" which became human as the Son of God.

In fact, if we begin with the base assumption of trinitarianism - that God is by nature indefinable and infinite, categorised only by what He is "not" - then we see an inherent contradiction within trinitarian theology: God is not in fact a hypostasis (much less three of them), though God can and does exist AS a hypostasis. So the question then becomes WHO is the hypostasis of God?

Amazingly, the Bible itself answers that question:
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(Heb 1:1-3)
The word "person" bolded above is "hypostasis". The SON is the "express image of God's hypostasis". The term "express image" is "character".

χαρακτήρ
charaktēr
khar-ak-tar'
From the same as G5482; a graver (the tool or the person), that is, (by implication) engraving ([“character”], the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image.

Thayer Definition:
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (Lev_13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile

The Son is the engraving of God's hypostasis, stamped in human nature, as it were.

As John said, "In the beginning was the LOGOS... and the LOGOS was God... and the LOGOS was made flesh, and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, as of the only begotten of the Father."

So in Christ we have the hypostasis of God existing as a human being, the Divine hypostasis engraved in human nature. And yet there are not two hypostases in Christ, one divine and one human. Rather, there is the hypostasis of God existing as a human being, one PERSON or hypostasis existing in two natures simultaneously.

There is no hypostasis of God apart from Christ, because the hypostasis of God is the Logos, which became flesh.

"So to whom did Christ pray? Himself?"

Is this not the "Great mystery of godliness", how God was manifest in flesh? So don't be surprised if it is difficult to wrap the mind around such a thing. But ask yourself: Why must God be a person or hypostasis APART from Christ? Says who? The trinitarian, whose metaphysics demand it be so? Is that not in fact polytheism? Two Gods, one incarnate, one not incarnate?

What is the purpose of prayer? To transfer information from you to God? Does He not already know what you have need of before you ever pray? Prayer is not for the purpose of telling God anything, as if He were needing some information or communication from you or I. Prayer serves another purpose. It brings us "closer" to God by His Spirit, it is a mechanism appointed by God by which we draw close to and become more in tune with the mind and will of God. It is a mechanism by which we are molded to be like God, partaking of the divine nature through prayerful appropriation of the promises of God. And is this not why vain babbling does not count for prayer? And why praying without faith does nothing? And why the prayer of the wicked is not heard by God and avails nothing? It isn't about us transmitting something to God, but God transmitting something to us.

God is beyond hypostasis, in His essential nature. He certainly has a hypostasis, to be sure. John calls it the Logos. His hypostasis is engraved or stamped or carved in human nature. We call Him Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
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  #94  
Old 10-14-2020, 04:31 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

The logos "was with God in the beginning."

John 1:2

Just a reminder.
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  #95  
Old 10-14-2020, 06:40 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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The logos "was with God in the beginning."

John 1:2

Just a reminder.
And?
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  #96  
Old 10-15-2020, 06:32 PM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

If you make the Christ a separate God from the Father then you must be binitarian.
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  #97  
Old 10-16-2020, 06:40 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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If you make the Christ a separate God from the Father then you must be binitarian.
For sure. 2 Gods or "God persons".
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  #98  
Old 10-16-2020, 07:30 AM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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If you make the Christ a separate God from the Father then you must be binitarian.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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  #99  
Old 10-16-2020, 08:26 AM
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
And THIS is Biblical truth.
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  #100  
Old 10-18-2020, 11:43 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: The "Binitarian" Jesus

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5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Do you believe Jesus is God?
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