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  #31  
Old 10-29-2020, 01:54 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
It is impossible to discuss with people that allegorize the scripture. There is a difference between figures of speech, and allegorizing the scripture.

Examples of Scripture allegorization:

Interpretation of John 21:11 by Augustine. The verse says, “Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken.” Augustine noted that 153 is the sum of the numbers from one to seventeen. In turn, seventeen is the sum of ten and seven. Ten is the number of the Ten Commandments, and seven is associated with the Spirit of God in the Book of Revelation, so he concluded that this verse reveals the importance of both law and Spirit.

Jerome interpreted the good ground in the parable of the sower in terms of marriage. (See Matthew 13:3-9.) The plants that produced a hundredfold are virgins, those that produced sixtyfold are widowed, and those that produced thirtyfold are married.


Examples of figure of speech:

Metaphor:
[Mat 5:14, 16 KJV] 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. ... 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Hypocatastasis:
[Psa 22:16 NKJV] 16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet;

The last it is actually an interesting one. "Pierced my hands and feet" which probably was said as a figure of speech, ended up becoming a literal event in Christ. Which is the opposite of what allegorist do.

Anthropomorphism but also a Hebrew idiom:
[Mar 16:19 NKJV] 19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.

There are also symbols that sometimes the Bible gives you the meaning, and sometimes it doesn't; but you can at least infer it is a symbol by the context.

I can discuss Bible with people that don't allegorize the scripture, because at least we have a common ground: the interpretation methods and principles. I don't have a common solid ground with allegorist. You truly need to stretch the Scripture beyond imagination to say everything was fulfilled in 70AD. I can't compete with that, it is beyond my capabilities (that was sarcasm, a figure of speech).
I'm not sure I've seen what you describe as "allegorizing" being the debate/discussion points of the preterists here.

According to Webster's:

Definition of allegory

1 : the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence a writer known for his use of allegory also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression The poem is an allegory of love and jealousy.
2 : a symbolic representation : emblem sense 2

According to the dictionary, an allegory is either a parable or a symbol. The Bible teaches many things via both parables and symbols.

I think you mean something else when you say "allegory".
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  #32  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:52 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I'm not sure I've seen what you describe as "allegorizing" being the debate/discussion points of the preterists here.

According to Webster's:

Definition of allegory

1 : the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence a writer known for his use of allegory also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression The poem is an allegory of love and jealousy.
2 : a symbolic representation : emblem sense 2

According to the dictionary, an allegory is either a parable or a symbol. The Bible teaches many things via both parables and symbols.

I think you mean something else when you say "allegory".
Elder LeDeay called it metaphorical.
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  #33  
Old 10-29-2020, 11:41 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
How many false prophecies has Baxter made now?
This is what Iíd like to know.
I donít really know Brother Baxter.
Does he consider himself a prophet?
Or does he teach about prophecy?
Or something else.

Iíve seen some of his opinions. But he doesnít seem to prophesy, to my knowledge at least. He seems to interpret the prophecy of the Bible. The question is of course if he interprets correctly.

Am I wrong?
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  #34  
Old 10-29-2020, 12:19 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
This is what Iíd like to know.
I donít really know Brother Baxter.
Does he consider himself a prophet?
Or does he teach about prophecy?
Or something else.

Iíve seen some of his opinions. But he doesnít seem to prophesy, to my knowledge at least. He seems to interpret the prophecy of the Bible. The question is of course if he interprets correctly.

Am I wrong?
No, you are absolutely correct. Brother Irvin Baxter Jr is not predicting anything. He is plainly giving the whole, "what if, maybe, could this be the XYZ?" He is just making statements concerning his opinion. He is no Johnny Come Lately he is a professional at what he does, while coming close to making a prediction. He is always sharp to place a disclaimer at the bottom.
What is a bit confusing is he will sound like he is hitting home runs, but that is the entertainment portion of his business. Keep them on the edge of their seats, wringing hands, feeling dread, and the impending doom of God ready to run the lawnmower over them. Because after all it is Post trib, and YOU will be taking part in the Zombie Apocalypse. Forget that whisked away secret rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds. You will be HERE. So, the magazines sell. A Message for the President sold, yet said a lot of things which never happened. Hence the reason why Brother Baxter Jr no longer offers it in his book line up.
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  #35  
Old 10-29-2020, 02:22 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

Quote:
What is a bit confusing is he will sound like he is hitting home runs, but that is the entertainment portion of his business. Keep them on the edge of their seats, wringing hands, feeling dread, and the impending doom of God ready to run the lawnmower over them. Because after all it is Post trib, and YOU will be taking part in the Zombie Apocalypse.
So was that what the Churches of the 1st century thought about the things Jesus prophesied?

Hand wringing, dread and impending doom?

Were THEY concerned about things like the "man of sin" or the "mark of the beast"?

Did they talk about these things? Speculate on what they meant? Or did they say these things dont matter, they are not "salvational"?
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  #36  
Old 10-29-2020, 03:04 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So was that what the Churches of the 1st century thought about the things Jesus prophesied?

Hand wringing, dread and impending doom?

Were THEY concerned about things like the "man of sin" or the "mark of the beast"?

Did they talk about these things? Speculate on what they meant? Or did they say these things dont matter, they are not "salvational"?
Mike, the difference between them and us is they knew what everything meant. Greek and Aramaic where their birth languages. The Hebrew Bible was understood as their history, written in their birth language. The New Testament was written in real time with current events they personally knew and thoroughly understood. They knew the Judean mythologies, Greek myths, they understood Kabbalah Gnostics and could identify them. Jesusí words and Paulís letters were not cryptic to them, and their main enemy were Judaizers who still had a working active Temple system. Who can point the early Christians and say that Jesus wasnít the Christ. Again, they knew Greek, and Aramaic gematria. Paul didnít have to guess, and contemplate what ifs or it could be that.
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  #37  
Old 10-29-2020, 03:09 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

Mike, do you believe that the Apostle Paul thought demons flew around in air craft? That an aircraft would set down in Rome to present themselves to Nero?
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  #38  
Old 10-29-2020, 03:23 PM
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jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Mike, do you believe that the Apostle Paul thought demons flew around in air craft? That an aircraft would set down in Rome to present themselves to Nero?
Well, I know that Kenneth Copeland wont fly with the rank and file because people have demons...thats why he has to have his own jet...to protect his annointing...from the demons...maybe he knows something we dont...I dunno.
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  #39  
Old 10-29-2020, 03:32 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Mike, the difference between them and us is they knew what everything meant. Greek and Aramaic where their birth languages. The Hebrew Bible was understood as their history, written in their birth language. The New Testament was written in real time with current events they personally knew and thoroughly understood. They knew the Judean mythologies, Greek myths, they understood Kabbalah Gnostics and could identify them. Jesus’ words and Paul’s letters were not cryptic to them, and their main enemy were Judaizers who still had a working active Temple system. Who can point the early Christians and say that Jesus wasn’t the Christ. Again, they knew Greek, and Aramaic gematria. Paul didn’t have to guess, and contemplate what ifs or it could be that.
So this is the answer to the simple question I asked? Ok carry on.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 10-29-2020 at 03:57 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-29-2020, 04:24 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So this is the answer to the simple question I asked? Ok carry on.
Mike, whatís the problem buddy? Is it starting to make too much sense? Are we to believe that the early Christians were ignorant of their own world? Their own language complete with understanding of how they used slang in a sentence? What Judeans thought about Tartarus, and the Titans? How they would use mythology of their time to relay truths of their holy scriptures to the Roman world around them? We are the ones who have to figure it out, not them. Whatís the problem Mike? That the New Testament was in real time for them? That they didnít have 4,0000 denominations to deal with? That they didnít have Strongís as a primary source? Were they a bunch of podunk rubes, stump stupid uneducated fishermen? Mike, how would the Apostle Paul view your idea concerning the Logos space suit of God? How would Paul and Jesus view your ideas of Satan flying around in a space ship? Landing in Rome in the first century and wanting an audience with Nero? The ministry of Jesus and Paul was shutting down the traditions of their time. They were able to convince the people within their century without maybes, could bes, and what ifs. Everyone knew the scripture in their birth language with metaphors, symbols from Greek, Hebrew, and Syriac.

But, Mike, I have some questions would you mind answering them?
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