Trinitarian tongues and interpretation

[A_PoMo]

I attended a trinitarian Pentecostal church yesterday where there was a tongues and interpretion at the end of the worship portion of the service. The church is a medium sized church of about 600 people and has been around for about 90 years. They are self ascribed "Pentecasual" in that they don't demonstrate alot of public displays of what is normally considered Pentecostal style worship and prayer. While I've seen speaking in tongues, the practice of spiritual gifts and such in a small group or one-on-one setting I've not seen it in the public service. So it was a out of the ordinary for this tongues and interpretation to happen as it did. I say all that to set the context so that it is understood that there isn't pressure on people to 'perform' or act 'spiritual' as I've seen in some Pentecostal circles which seems to produce some wack jobs and many 'false' events. If it happens in this church it is generally the real deal.

The lady who spoke out was an elderly lady with a lovely German accent. She rolled her R's and everything. It was pretty cool. She spoke the tongues and then the pastor had everyone sit down and explained to visitors what was going on. He talked about the importance of this gift and asked for people to speak up of they felt they had the interpretation. Nobody volunteered. He sensed that the elderly lady had the interpretation and asked her if she had the message and she did and spoke it out clearly and strongly. It was very powerful, and everything she said was biblically based as far as content and it had an edifying and exhortive effect on the congregation. Ironically the title of the sermon was "Pentecost - The most important event of the church!". It was obviously a God moment for the church and not contrived.

As one whose roots are in OPism I tuned into something that most of them probably didn't realize. As she spoke it was clear that it was the Holy Spirit speaking and she referred a couple of times to "Jesus" and "The Father" in the third person and it was clear they were menat to understood as an something other than than her or the one speaking through her. Had this happened in an OP church it would have been disconcerting for many OP's present as it obviously had a trinitarian perspective.

Ok, so here are my questions. First of all what is your reaction to this spiritual event happening in a trinitarian church? Second, what do you think about the trinitarian flavor of the message? A follow-up to that would be how much do you think our personal theology effects our 'interpretations' of tongues both in the verbal offering of the interpreation as well as the mental processing of those who hear it?

[Michael The Disciple]

There is no problem to me if a message refers to the Father and Jesus. The New Testament is full of words like that so in itself that would not make it false. I would love to hear tongues messages that truly brought revelation. Something more than "I love you my people".

If it brought real revelation I would be impressed. Now if a message came out saying "I am a trinty" or something obviouly false I would want no more of it. So my theology does affect my acceptance of what the Spirit is supposedly saying.

[A_PoMo]

What you define as "revelation" ?

[pelathais]

The fact that she "rolled her r's" in accordance with her German accent would seem to indicate that there is a human component to this divine manifestation. I have never read in my KJV Bible any place where the Holy Spirit "rolled His r's."

Also, in Scripture it is rather common to see one "Person" speak to another "Person" as though they were a "seperate entity..." see Psalm 110:1, for an example. But then we find the same grammatical construction in other passages of Scripture where there is clearly just one "person" who is clearly intended such as Luke 15:17 and Psalm 42:11.

The Godhead has complexities within itself, but God is still one.

[Jack Shephard]

I don't care either way. In either tongues and the interpretation the message given is 'filtered' through our flesh. This means through our voice and possible through our minds. If we are conditioned to speak verbage one way then it is very likely when giving one of these messages it will come out based on our conditioning. Such as this lady rolled her R's well. If it had been an english American there might have not been the rolling of the R's but it mostlikely would not have affected the message at all the rolling was a condition of her native tongue and the Jesus and the Father talk was a by product of her conditioning, IMO

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

As one whose roots are in OPism I tuned into something that most of them probably didn't realize. As she spoke it was clear that it was the Holy Spirit speaking and she referred a couple of times to "Jesus" and "The Father" in the third person and it was clear they were menat to understood as an something other than than her or the one speaking through her. Had this happened in an OP church it would have been disconcerting for many OP's present as it obviously had a trinitarian perspective.

Ok, so here are my questions. First of all what is your reaction to this spiritual event happening in a trinitarian church? Second, what do you think about the trinitarian flavor of the message? A follow-up to that would be how much do you think our personal theology effects our 'interpretations' of tongues both in the verbal offering of the interpreation as well as the mental processing of those who hear it?

Obvious " trinitarian perspective"?
A "trinitarian flavor"?

Even the New Testament has many phrases that some consider to have "triniarian flavor". But reading those verses dont make me think there's a trinity, since in its overall context the bible makes it clear to me there is no Trinity.

Hearing tongues and interpretation in someone's church isnt going to make me change my theology on something that Word of God already makes fairly clear to me.

We're headed down a slippery slope if we allow our doctrine and theology to be determined by tongues-and-interpretation messages.

[LUKE2447]

No problem considering Jesus is a actual man and Son, though the very image/nature of God made flesh etc... He is the expression of the Father and in being that and a man he can refer to the Father as other than himself. It does not contradict One God. As the FATHER is the only God and all that proceeds forth from him cannot be another God as he is the divine source. Thus Jesus being his offshoot cannot claim divinity of his own but what he Father gives. Thus his source it that of the ONE TRUE GOD the Father. Thus Jesus can pray and yet be God as he is ONE with the Father yet distinct in his humanity. So yes they can speak of distinction. One as the man Christ Jesus the other as the Father in which he receives all divine attributes and nature.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

...
Ok, so here are my questions.

First of all what is your reaction to this spiritual event happening in a trinitarian church?

Second, what do you think about the trinitarian flavor of the message?

A follow-up to that would be how much do you think our personal theology effects our 'interpretations' of tongues both in the verbal offering of the interpreation as well as the mental processing of those who hear it?

First, in my opinion, there is only one Holy Ghost, and He lives within all who have invited Jesus Christ into their lives. Not only are some folks in trinity churches (and in oneness churches) saved but some have also been baptized in the Spirit.

Second, was it really "trinitarian flavor"? Or did it reflect language used in Scripture such as
"God gave His Son;"
"blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ;"
"God anointed Jesus Christ of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and power who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil for God was with him;"
"The Lord said unto my Lord...;"
"He has made Him to be sin for us who knew no sin;"
etc.?
Some of us can hear those same phrases and have a different mental picture.

As to the follow up, I think that has been addressed in another thread on tongues on this forum. I'll see if I can find my answer there.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam

...
As to the follow up, I think that has been addressed in another thread on tongues on this forum. I'll see if I can find my answer there.

These are some things I've said in another thread on this forum:

When a person prophesies or interprets an utterance in tongues, he/she is speaking out to people and giving them what he/she thinks God would say to them at that time. We have some times made it too "magical" or too "spooky" or too "spiritual." Often the person just speaks from their heart without "planning" what they are going to say. Consequently it is spoken in the same way the person usually speaks (as far as grammer, pronunciation, local slang, etc.). Because the person feels like they are speaking for God they often "dress it up" in KJV English because: 1) they think God talks that way, and 2) it is expected by the hearers.

Now, please don't take this as a putdown of tongues, interpretation, and prophecy. As the person yields and speaks out by faith, God can and some times does, get some things out there that would not have been spoken under ordinary circumstances. Some things may be revealed that would have been otherwise unknown. But, usually, the person speaking is saying something to build up, stir up, and cheer up or lift up the hearers, so it is often about: God knowing what we are going through; God's promise of His presence with us at all times; encouragement to hold on if prayer is not answered as soon as we would like it to be; encouragement to be faithful to God; a move of God just around the corner; the rapture which is the hope of the saints; etc. We all could stand to hear those things every once in a while.
__________________

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Sam

First, in my opinion, there is only one Holy Ghost, and He lives within all who have invited Jesus Christ into their lives. Not only are some folks in trinity churches (and in oneness churches) saved but some have also been baptized in the Spirit.

Second, was it really "trinitarian flavor"? Or did it reflect language used in Scripture such as
"God gave His Son;"
"blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ;"
"God anointed Jesus Christ of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and power who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil for God was with him;"
"The Lord said unto my Lord...;"
"He has made Him to be sin for us who knew no sin;"
etc.?
Some of us can hear those same phrases and have a different mental picture.

As to the follow up, I think that has been addressed in another thread on tongues on this forum. I'll see if I can find my answer there.

Excellent answer Sam.