What is Apostolic?

[tv1a]

You first statement validates my point that an apostolic label is about validation. There is nothing judgemental to it. It's a fact.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That doesn't mean someone can't have their own definition to distinguish them from other groups that believe differently. Saying it's about validating worth is a rather judgemental statement.

[tv1a]

The catholics have an apostolic label. And there label is just as legitimate in their eyes as the charismatics and pentecostals...tv

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Labels aren't bad if they match the contents they are suppose to describe.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by tv1a

You first statement validates my point that an apostolic label is about validation. There is nothing judgemental to it. It's a fact.

really? How does my first statement show people use labels to validate their worth?

[tv1a]

Try the first sentence of your quote.

That doesn't mean someone can't have their own definition to distinguish them from other groups that believe differently.

Call it self affirmation, call it validation, call it self righteouss. There is no reason to label oneself as apostolic other than to brag about it. The apostolic label is just like a secret handshake. It doesn't mean much to people outside the circle.

A label isn't what draws people to Jesus. Very few people are knocking down doors just because you are apostolic. A look at one's weakly church attendance shows that to be true.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

really? How does my first statement show people use labels to validate their worth?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Try the first sentence of your quote.
Call it self affirmation, call it validation, call it self righteouss. There is no reason to label oneself as apostolic other than to brag about it. The apostolic label is just like a secret handshake. It doesn't mean much to people outside the circle.

So when someone labels themself Christian or believer or follower of Jesus or baptist or whatever...it's about self righteousness?!?! I see you asserting that, but I still don't see you proving that. In fact that is quite a judgement to say you know a persons heart...that because someone says "I am Apostolic" or "I am Pentecostal" they are being self righteous.

As for people outside the "circle" don't be so sure. They know we call ourselves Apostolic. They would never know we call ourselves Pentecostal or Oneness either until they get to know us more and those that have done that know what we mean when we say we are Apostolic.

If asked I can dance around it all day long or I can come right out and say "Well I am a Oneness Pentecostal"...Or I can take half an hour and explain all the things I believe the bible is saying, but the shortest way is to simply say "I am Oneness" or "I am a Pentecostal" and they will probably know what I believe in general without having to go through a mini-bible study

A label isn't what draws people to Jesus. Very few people are knocking down doors just because you are apostolic. A look at one's weakly church attendance shows that to be true.

Who said anything about labels drawing people to Jesus?? lol

You know, when asked what I am, I have tried just saying "Oh I believe in jesus" or "Oh, I am a Christian", but by folks that wanted to know what I believed they felt I was hiding something. They wanted more specifics...that is what labels are for. If I asked someone where they are at theologically on the godhead and they say "I am a Trinitarian" my first thought would not be "Hmmm....self righteousness"...Im wondering why that is what pops into your mind when someone use a label

Apostolic or Oneness isn't a fixed belief with only one set of beliefs, several contrasting positions on God may be held, however the main belief seems to be that:

1) The Father alone is the one true God (which JWs and Unitrians also hold to) and

2) The Son is a man in whom the deity (Father) indwells which the JWs and Unitarians deny.

3) A third belief held by all would be that baptism with a special formula which is usually Lord Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, though a minority of Oneness folk will claim that one can be saved if baptised incorrectly.

4) Speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation, although once again a minority will claim that a person can be saved without ever speaking in tongues. Rather Oddly, the vast majority of Oneness folk will accept that tens of millions of Roman Catholics, Assemblies of God, other Charismatics speak in genuine tongues and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and yet these people are still unsaved and going to hell.

[tv1a]

When you study the Bible, you'll discover the NT did not suscribe to labels. The label christian was put on the NT believers by non-believers.

Self labelling is for self affirmation.

If people outside the circle know you are apostolic, chances are their interpretation of the word is diffreent than your definition...

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So when someone labels themself Christian or believer or follower of Jesus or baptist or whatever...it's about self righteousness?!?! I see you asserting that, but I still don't see you proving that. In fact that is quite a judgement to say you know a persons heart...that because someone says "I am Apostolic" or "I am Pentecostal" they are being self righteous.

As for people outside the "circle" don't be so sure. They know we call ourselves Apostolic. They would never know we call ourselves Pentecostal or Oneness either until they get to know us more and those that have done that know what we mean when we say we are Apostolic.

If asked I can dance around it all day long or I can come right out and say "Well I am a Oneness Pentecostal"...Or I can take half an hour and explain all the things I believe the bible is saying, but the shortest way is to simply say "I am Oneness" or "I am a Pentecostal" and they will probably know what I believe in general without having to go through a mini-bible study


Who said anything about labels drawing people to Jesus?? lol

You know, when asked what I am, I have tried just saying "Oh I believe in jesus" or "Oh, I am a Christian", but by folks that wanted to know what I believed they felt I was hiding something. They wanted more specifics...that is what labels are for. If I asked someone where they are at theologically on the godhead and they say "I am a Trinitarian" my first thought would not be "Hmmm....self righteousness"...Im wondering why that is what pops into your mind when someone use a label

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by tv1a

When you study the Bible, you'll discover the NT did not suscribe to labels. The label christian was put on the NT believers by non-believers.

Self labelling is for self affirmation.

If people outside the circle know you are apostolic, chances are their interpretation of the word is diffreent than your definition...

When you study the Bible, you'll discover that the NT DID subscribe to labels...Pharisees, Saducees, Zealots, Samaritans etc. Regardless of the origin of the "Christian" label, it identified a group of followers of Jesus Christ.

I think your assertion is arrogant. Labeling certainly CAN for self-affirmation but it doesn't have to be. EVERYTHING has a label. We use labels to identify something about what is labeled. Labels are primarily for identity not affirmation. I think your statement is ludicrous and not well thought out.

Now if you stated that labels are, at times, used for self-affirmation...I would agree with you. But you seem to be painting with a broad brush and asserting that in all cases or at least most of the time labels are attempts at self-affirmation.

There are, indeed, a number of different definitions of "apostolic." Most of the folks here know what the definition of apostolic is here on this forum. For the most part, it is an identification with the oneness and Ac. 2:38.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I feel sorry for anyone anyone who has to validate their worth by a label.

Did you read the article or just the title?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by tv1a

When you study the Bible, you'll discover the NT did not suscribe to labels. The label christian was put on the NT believers by non-believers.

They were called Believers. They were called Disciples. They were called The church. They were called The body. They were called The Brethren.....BY themselves!

Self labelling is for self affirmation.

Prove it. Self Labelling is for identification.