2 Thess 2

[Amanah]

Would someone be kind enough to give an explanation of this passage of scripture, please.

2 Thessalonians
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

[Esaias]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-17
(1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, In light of, as well as concerning, the coming of Christ and our gathering together unto Him. He has already come in power into the kingdom, and we are being gathered together unto Him by the preaching of the Gospel, but He will also come (return) and we shall be gathered together in the resurrection to Him. And in view of these things, and concerning these things, we beseech you as follows:
(2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. We beseech you not to be disturbed as though the coming of the Lord and our final gathering together with Him was imminent and upon us.
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Do not allow anyone to deceive you, because that day will not happen until certain things occur first, namely an apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin who follows the example of Judas the son of perdition.
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. This man of sin is opposed to God, exalts himself above everything called God or that men worship, establishing himself as if he were God, and he sits in the temple (church) of God, making himself out to be as if he were God, usurping the divine prerogatives of the Spirit.
(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? These things have already been taught to you, so do not forget what you were taught, and hold fast to the doctrine you originally received.
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. You already know what prevents the rise and revealing of this man of sin.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. The hidden secret of lawlessness (rebellion against God's divine laws) is already working, but there is something preventing this mystery of lawlessness from coming into full fruition. But until that preventive force is removed, the secret plot of lawlessness and rebellion will continue working behind the scenes.
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Once the preventive force is removed, the Lawless will be revealed. This Lawless force will be eventually destroyed by the spirit or breath of the Lord's mouth and the brightness of His coming.
(9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, The Lawless will come on the scene and succeed to power through lying signs and wonders according to the working of the adversary.
(10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. The ones who fall away after the man of sin, the Lawless One, will be deceived. And they are easily deceived because they practice and prefer unrighteousness and lawlessness rather than obedience to the laws of God. They do not receive a love of the truth which would enable them to be saved.
(11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: Because they have no love for the truth, but prefer lies and lawlessness instead, God Himself will give them a powerful, deceiving influence, to cause them to believe a lie. God will confirm them in their apostasy.
(12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. God will do this in order to secure their damnation, because they do not believe the truth (the word of God) but instead prefer unrighteousness.
(13) But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: You, however, have been chosen to be saved. This salvation comes through your being set apart to God by the work of the Spirit in you causing you to believe the truth.
(14) Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. He called you to salvation and being set apart to God by the apostles gospel message, so that you could obtain and share in the resurrection glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(15) Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Because of this fact that God has chosen you to be saved and to obtain the glory of Christ through being set apart by the Spirit through believing the apostolic gospel, Do not be moved away from the original apostolic faith and practice which you have received from the apostles, whether by letter or by personal instruction.
(16) Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
(17) Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. Jesus Himself, and God our Father, loved us, and given us eternal comfort and hope through His mercy and blessings, and we pray that He would comfort your heart and establish you in perfect obedience to the gospel, preventing your being moved away from the truth or being disturbed by false doctrines.



A few remarks:

1. The man of sin is identified with Judas "the son of perdition". This indicates the man of sin would be apostolic in origin, as Judas was an apostle, and that the man of sin would betray Christ. Paul's words in 1 Corinthians ch 11 concerning the Lord's Supper show that one who betrays and abuses the saints betrays and abuses the body of Christ, and is guilty as Judas was of betraying the Lord's physical body. Thus, we see that the man of sin is to found among those in apostolic succession (ie, eldership, having the oversight of the church) but who would betray Christ by abusing the saints. So the man of sin would be characterised by wayward and apostate church leadership.

2. The man of sin is said to sit in the temple ('naos') of God. This is a phrase used by Paul exclusively for the church. The man of sin enthrones himself in the church of God.

3. The man of sin would be on display as soon as a restraining force would be taken out of the way, and would continue his career until he was destroyed by the return of Jesus Christ at which time the resurrection of the saints would occur. There was some kind of restraining power that prevented the hidden working of lawlessness from coming to full fruition in the church which would reveal the man of sin. Many things have been proposed as to the identity of this restraining influence, but I am currently of the opinion that it is the secular Roman power. As long as the secular Roman power held sway, the man of sin could not be fully revealed in all his ugliness and naked, raw grasping for power. Once the secular Roman power fell, it was supplanted by the clerical power of the bishop of Rome, which established itself as "God on the earth". This was not the arrival of the man of sin, but merely the revealing of the man of sin as to his true character and identity. The man of sin had already been in the church of God, usurping the role of Christ as Head of the church. Once secular Roman government fell to apostate ecclesiastical influences, the man of sin could be revealed as to his true character.

4. The man of sin arose within the church along with a rising tide of apostasy. There was to be a post-apostolic falling away from the original apostolic faith and practice. We have seen this clearly in the historical record - not long after the death of the apostles the church was inundated with false doctrines and non-apostolic practices, such as trinitarianism, sprinkling and pouring instead of immersion, relics, prayer to dead saints, prayer and practical worshipping of angels, the introduction of the rites and customs of Mithra/Baal/Sol Invictus, abandonment of Sabbath and the correct time of Passover in favour of Sunday and Easter, the priesthood/clericalism, sacramentalism, purgatory, absolution, transubstantiation, burning incense, immortal soulism, the construction of physical temples and physical altars, the ravenous accumulation of wealth, the spread of perversions among the clerics, monasticism, and a whole host of additional departures from the original apostolic faith. It is out of this milieu of apostasy that the man of sin would be revealed - the man of sin was already a part of this apostasy, but once secular Roman power was given over to the control of the apostasy, the man of sin could finally be on full display.

5. Since the apostasy developed over several centuries, and has continued even today, and since the man of sin arose within that apostasy, the man of sin continues even today, and will continue until the return of the Lord. This proves the man of sin is not a single, personal, individual, but rather a continuous succession of apostate eldership. It should also be noted that the man of sin is not limited to the chief bishop of the apostate Roman religious institution, for they have long since been removed as a church (see Revelation 2:5, and Revelation 3:16). Wherever men are set up in the church of God in place of the Holy Spirit, where THEY dictate what happens and what doctrines are to be believed rather than Christ through His Spirit and His Word, there you have the man of sin. The man of sin is not a single personal individual, but like the phrase "man of God" refers to a TYPE of person.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. You already know what prevents the rise and revealing of this man of sin.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. The hidden secret of lawlessness (rebellion against God's divine laws) is already working, but there is something preventing this mystery of lawlessness from coming into full fruition. But until that preventive force is removed, the secret plot of lawlessness and rebellion will continue working behind the scenes.

I now want to address the issue of the restrainer a bit. A lot of theories have been put forward by various persons as to who or what this is. One of the more recently popular views is that the restrainer is the either church, or the Holy Spirit. I say "more recently popular views" because this view is wholly a product of dispensational ratpurism which did not exist prior to the 1830s.

That the restrainer is the Holy Spirit is easily debunked by simply thinking about it: How can the Holy Spirit be "taken out of the way"? He can't. You can't take God out of the way.

That the restrainer is the church, "taken out of the way" via a supposed rapture, is also easily debunked by the very teaching of Paul here in this chapter.

First of all, Paul stated the coming of the Lord, and our gathering together unto Him, occurs AFTER the man of sin is revealed. If the church is the restrainer that is taken out of the way by rapture, then there is a palpable and obvious contradiction. The man of sin is revealed AFTER the rapture and the church is removed, according to dispensationalism, but according to Paul the church is resurrected and gathered to Jesus ("raptured") AFTER the man of sin is revealed and during his destruction! So obviously dispensational rapturism fails, and fails hard.

Secondly, the man of sin sits in the naos of God, a term Paul only uses for the church. If the church was removed or taken out of the way, then the man of sin could not sit in the naos of God, for it would be gone! Again, dispensationalis rapturism fails, and fails hard.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I now want to address the issue of the restrainer a bit. A lot of theories have been put forward by various persons as to who or what this is. One of the more recently popular views is that the restrainer is the either church, or the Holy Spirit. I say "more recently popular views" because this view is wholly a product of dispensational ratpurism which did not exist prior to the 1830s.

That the restrainer is the Holy Spirit is easily debunked by simply thinking about it: How can the Holy Spirit be "taken out of the way"? He can't. You can't take God out of the way.

That the restrainer is the church, "taken out of the way" via a supposed rapture, is also easily debunked by the very teaching of Paul here in this chapter.

First of all, Paul stated the coming of the Lord, and our gathering together unto Him, occurs AFTER the man of sin is revealed. If the church is the restrainer that is taken out of the way by rapture, then there is a palpable and obvious contradiction. The man of sin is revealed AFTER the rapture and the church is removed, according to dispensationalism, but according to Paul the church is resurrected and gathered to Jesus ("raptured") AFTER the man of sin is revealed and during his destruction! So obviously dispensational rapturism fails, and fails hard.

Secondly, the man of sin sits in the naos of God, a term Paul only uses for the church. If the church was removed or taken out of the way, then the man of sin could not sit in the naos of God, for it would be gone! Again, dispensationalis rapturism fails, and fails hard.

additional thoughts on the rapture:

Wasn’t 2 Thessalonians written as a clarification of 1 Thessalonians?

if so, per 2 Thessalonians, all who have not obeyed the gospel at his coming will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9), (There will be no one left to go thru a tribulation)

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 cannot be a separate event from the second coming which is the first resurrection of Rev 20.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

additional thoughts on the rapture:

Wasn’t 2 Thessalonians written as a clarification of 1 Thessalonians?

if so, per 2 Thessalonians, all who have not obeyed the gospel at his coming will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9), (There will be no one left to go thru a tribulation)

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 cannot be a separate event from the second coming which is the first resurrection of Rev 20.

I think that's about right. The pretrib rapture teaching is just so far gone it's not even in the game.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Amanah

additional thoughts on the rapture:

Wasn’t 2 Thessalonians written as a clarification of 1 Thessalonians?

if so, per 2 Thessalonians, all who have not obeyed the gospel at his coming will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9), (There will be no one left to go thru a tribulation)

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 cannot be a separate event from the second coming which is the first resurrection of Rev 20.

The 1st resurrection is in 2 major parts.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Sean

The 1st resurrection is in 2 major parts.

yes, thank you Sean

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Amanah

additional thoughts on the rapture:

Wasn’t 2 Thessalonians written as a clarification of 1 Thessalonians?

if so, per 2 Thessalonians, all who have not obeyed the gospel at his coming will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9), (There will be no one left to go thru a tribulation)

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 cannot be a separate event from the second coming which is the first resurrection of Rev 20.

Who is the "you" of 2 Thes?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Bowas

Who is the "you" of 2 Thes?

"You who are troubled".

[Evang.Benincasa]

What is the certain “apostasy” boys and girls?

What is the falling away?

Since obviously that is the particular time indicator.