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  #1  
Old 07-03-2017, 01:09 AM
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The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

My newest entry in my blog. I hope it blesses those who read it.

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...nto-me-saying/
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:04 AM
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

Hi Votive, I have read your linked blog post and would like some clarification, do you feel there should be no other requirement for church membership other than being a believer?

From your blog:


For far too long, we believers have operated under a deception that we can divide off of or from other believers and each other in order to go and do our own thing, presumably minding our own business, and not reach out to one another while reaching up to God, to fulfill the Great Commission.

It is a pretense. We can no longer sit around meeting with our local version of the Body of the Anointed One while ignoring other nearby members, treating them as if they do not exist, and somehow expect that the invitation and commissioning given to God’s people as saints will be achieved.

Sure, we may think we are doing our part, that our assembly is in the will of the Father, and all is right in the world, especially if or when we see results. Have a visitor come to a meeting, nail down the Bible study you’ve been trying for months to get, perform a baptism, or whatever, and watch as we puff ourselves up with delusions about how God is so pleased with everything we are or are doing.

One of the greatest dangers a believer or group of believers can ever find themselves in, is when they presume to feel vindicated about all that they are or do simply because God has granted them some gift, anointing, level of understanding, revelation, or revival.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:31 PM
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

There should be no other requirement for church membership than being placed into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. If the Lord says they are in, they are in.

The moment a person is put into the Body of Christ by the Lord, they automatically have membership in every single local expression of that Body.
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Old 07-04-2017, 12:11 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

I agree. If you are baptized in the Spirit you are a member of Christs body. No doubt. Then you hit the hard part when you try to become a part of the local Church.

What if your beliefs are different than theirs? Will they accept you? And really are not all our beliefs supposed to be the same?

1 Cor. 1:10

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

So what you have written concerning Spirit baptized people making up the body is true. And yet what Paul told the Corinthians is true.

Next step?
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:02 AM
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

Hi, Brother

I do intend to write up another entry as a continuing piece, called The Way Forward.

When thinking about Diplomacy and Negotiation, words typically heard in a political context, another word comes to mind, namely "ambassador", which has just as rich and important a meaning within a Christian context, especially as it relates to those God has chosen as emissaries of His will, which we typically call "apostles".

The road is long and hard, and many are the days where defeat and discouragement are all that are left to us, after we try and try and try again, to bring people together, to rally around Jesus. I know the despair and the fear, feeling like giving up is the wisest course of action.

But I am reminded what Paul wrote about apostles, that they are the off-scouring of the world, and have been appointed unto death. I've been running for a long time now, but I don't want to run anymore. My legs are hemorrhaging from all the pricks I've kicked.

I don't know where this is all going, application and real-life wise, but I've always felt that not trying is not an option. In the world, before Christ, I gave up and quit just about everything I ever did, at least as a teen and young man. But God did a work in me, and now, ever since He filled me with the Holy Spirit, the word "quit" just hasn't been in my vocabulary. I haven't been able to see the Way Forward, until now, and as are most things, the timing was crucial.

What should a brother do when he wants to join up with a local assembly, but finds he and they don't believe some or perhaps many of the same things?

There are a few courses of action. One is shut up and deal with it. Another is, walk away and not deal with it. Another is speaking up, and find out if you'll be allowed to stay or asked to leave. Another is speaking up, and perhaps finding a willingness to listen and hear what you have to say, but counting on that is probably not smart. Or, you could bide your time, build relationships and friendships over the course of several years, and hope to slowly work in your ideas, bit by bit, to see what sticks.

Personally, I've been there, done that, with all of the above, and it didn't work. None of it did.

But I am glad for the process, to find out what doesn't work. So here's what I think:

A very favorite verse of yours goes like this:

There is only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

We have all, I think, for a long time, only looked at Christ's mediatorial role in terms of salvation and covenant. But what if we see that Christ is also the mediator between us as believers? What if we allowed Him to do the things only He can do, that we on our own, cannot do, when we find we are in some way not reconciled with other believers?

Reconciliation is not just about hurt feelings or offenses. It's also about lining up together, about being on the same page.

I know that I do not, for instance, agree with anyone here, on everything. I might just barely agree with anyone about anything, for all I really know. But I realized some time ago, that the goal of my Christianity is not to agree with other Christians. That is a rabbit trail that never ends well. The goal of my Christianity is to agree with Jesus.

I heard a story about an early Pentecostal pioneer that God was dealing with about reconciling with a brother (I'm paraphrasing):

The man got up, went over to the house, and said to the brother, "The Lord's been dealing with me about being reconciled with you, and that I need to forgive you". The brother said "Okay. If I did anything to offend you, I'm sorry."

The man went away, and a few minutes later, the Lord said to him "You didn't mean what you said. You didn't really forgive him. Go back and forgive him". So the man went back, a little more humble, and talked with the brother again.

He left, and a little while later, the Lord spoke again and said "You didn't mean what you said. You didn't forgive him like I told you to. Go back and forgive him". The man went back the third time, knocked on the door, and when the brother opened, the man started weeping and sobbing under the power of the Holy Spirit, and he finally forgave the brother. They finally, after all that time, reconciled, even with, or rather, through, the front the man was putting up the first two times.

That is the power and purpose of the mediatorial role Christ plays between us as brethren. Now, imagine instead of offense, the reconciliation that occurred above was doctrinal?

What if each of us were so sensitive to the Lord's voice that He could call us out on the spot and tell us "You and ______ don't believe the same things. Go over there and work it out". And if we were honest and had any wisdom, we wouldn't try to put up a front and act like we obeyed the Lord unless we found true agreement.

This is where an emissary of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ must come into play. Not to act as judge determining which side of the table is right or wrong about a belief, but about helping the two sides come together and admit that as long as there is disagreement, there is division, that can be exploited by the enemy. And if both parties recognize in the emissary the authority of apostleship to help negotiate, as long as the emissary remains impartial and keeps leading everyone back to Jesus, I believe it will work out.

Consider Acts 15. The apostles and elders didn't throw their hands up about circumcision for Gentiles and go into schism just because there wasn't agreement about the matter.

But we do this all the time. They wrestled with the issue, and when the Holy Spirit made it plain to all present what the truth was, and how to proceed, reconciliation occurred. No one was ostracized, dis-fellowshipped, or disrespected.

Can we get back to that? Is there really anyone out there that is willing to seek the Lord that much, to be submissive to the will of the Holy Spirit, and not go into schism, no matter how big the issue is?

My flesh says "Not a chance".

But I've been singing that tune for a long time, and if nothing changes, nothing changes. I've been waiting around for something to break, move, change, or for someone else to get off their butt and do something about all this mess and division. I can't be like that anymore. I am going to do what I can to bring people together. The Lord knows they've divided themselves up pretty good already.

In conclusion, the only other thing I can say is, only the ones who see the problem are capable of bringing about the solution. You and me, and others have been on the hunt for apostles and prophets, the true foundation of the Church, while many just passively let the tide take them whichever way, ignorant and indifferent to what's at stake.

So, between the two groups, who do you suppose are the ones God's going to use to become the apostles and prophets of the 21st century New Testament Church?
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Last edited by votivesoul; 07-04-2017 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:54 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

The way is narrow and few there be who find it. The Acts church was freshly under the leadership of those who actually walked with Jesus. The church councils that we have had since Constantine resulted in more and more apostasy until the church was practically wipe off the face of the earth until the reformation. Today an ecumenical church would mean a complete watering down of the gospel to the point of irrelevance, which is what has basically happened in the charismatic movement. The third wave now believes you can have the gifts of the spirit without receiving the Spirit.
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Old 07-04-2017, 07:22 AM
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

Keep the faith Bro I know what your going through. I tried this as a personal message and it did not work. I recently discovered you and I have a mutual friend, a brother from Trinidad.

He is one I believe the Lord may use to begin the wonderful work of restoration. Whatever happens dont give up. Its darkest before the dawn. Peace and love.
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:56 PM
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

Bro Aaron, I'm beginning to understand your point of view. I'm just not able to see how to bridge the gap.
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Old 07-04-2017, 04:27 PM
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

There is no "body of Christ" except the local assembly or community of believers. The Lord added TO THE CHURCH such as should be saved, etc.

Many assemblies have gotten into error (see Rev 2 and 3), and John wasn't told to "get them together" nor to infiltrate and work in his ideas bit by bit. He simply delivered a message from God for them to repent and get it right, and they either did or didn't.

If you believe all local assemblies are apostate, then rebuke them and move on, preach to the lost, secure converts, weld them into a functioning assembly holding the truth.

Otherwise, you're just complaining about things above your paygrade.
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Old 07-04-2017, 05:20 PM
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Re: The Word of the Lord Came Unto Me, Saying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I

What if your beliefs are different than theirs? Will they accept you? And really are not all our beliefs supposed to be the same?

1 Cor. 1:10

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

So what you have written concerning Spirit baptized people making up the body is true. And yet what Paul told the Corinthians is true.

Next step?
People will not agree to speak the same thing and be in one mind and one accord unless they are willing to do that. Two can walk together but only in so far as they are in agreement.

And there ought to be elders in the church. Their job is, among other things, to teach that which the assembly is to believe and be in agreement on, according to the Word. If you think they are in error, you can talk to them but it helps if you yourself are recognized as an elder in the assembly who's opinion is something to be acknowledged.

If an assembly does not wish to function in the Biblical manner, then much of this is a moot point.

In which case, what's holding you back from evangelizing the lost and discipling them into a community of believers with a solid grounding in the truth?
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