Do angels have free will?

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Amanah

Both humans and angels can choose to obey or disobey.
It seems there is a hierarchy of angels, so that if the head angel rebels all those under his command
automatically follow, i.e., Satan and his angels.

That would mean that the angels under Lucifer had no free will!
What does that say about the rest of the angels?
Either they ALL have free wills, or NONE have free wills.

Brother Villa

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!



That would mean that the angels under Lucifer had no free will!
What does that say about the rest of the angels?
Either they ALL have free wills, or NONE have free wills.

Brother Villa

you are probably right.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Humans have free will on the basis of not having obtained immortality (1 Cor 15), not having eaten from the tree of life and sealed our destiny yet (Genesis 3). We have been made a little lower than the angels. (Ps 8:2-7)

Angels, having been created immortal, have no recourse for sin.
(Rev 12:7-12) (Rev 20:15)

Will humans lose their free will at the resurrection?

And what about God? Does He have free will?

Did I even define free will correctly? I'd like to know if my definition is accurate or not.

[BrainWashed]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Both humans and angels can choose to obey or disobey.

It seems there is a hierarchy of angels, so that if the head angel rebels all those under his command automatically follow, i.e., Satan and his angels.

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!

That would mean that the angels under Lucifer had no free will!
What does that say about the rest of the angels?
Either they ALL have free wills, or NONE have free wills.

Brother Villa

The fact that Lucifer could rebel indicated he had freewill.

Also, Satan's angels could be those angelic beings who got fed up and decided to follow Satan. Following Satan doesn't necessarily mean you're under his command. It simply means I choose to indulge in unrighteousness, hence, following in Satan's footsteps (or hoofsteps).

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Will humans lose their free will at the resurrection?

And what about God? Does He have free will?

Did I even define free will correctly? I'd like to know if my definition is accurate or not.

I will try to work on this this weekend.

I have a preliminary thoughts:

God's freewill: I think God is bound by his word therefore his will can not violate his word and in that sense it is not free.

I think that once all enemies are put under Jesus feet and he has delivered up the kingdom, and Satan and death, and all evil are cast in the lake of fire, that those who inherit eternal life will be so one with the Lord that we will by nature do His will.

Free will is the ability to choose, as in choose ye this day who you will serve.

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Iniquity: knowing what is right (truth), and not abiding in it.
The angels (not all) first committed iniquity, which is rebellion against the
Truth. They knew truth because they were created perfect (sinless). They
could not be punished because there was no law against iniquity in Eternity.

Sin: not knowing what is right (truth): and trying to do what is right
the wrong way.


ALL of the commandments, statutes, ordinances, etc., of God were directed
to man, to teach him the Way and eventually lead him to salvation through
the sacrifice of “…the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.”
We must also understand that all of those same commandments, statutes, and
ordinances, were also intended to bring all the rebellious angels to justice, to
receive their righteous punishment! If we study the “freeman” and the “slave”
in the Law, we find that the freeman is responsible for the actions of his slave(s)
(bond slave(s). If a slave killed another man’s slave, he could be punished
by the dead slave’s owner. But if the slave killed the SON of a freeman, then
the slave’s OWNER must pay “…an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.”

Satan was without sin and could not be judged or condemned although he had
committed iniquity in Eternity (where there was no laws). But when satan’s
slaves (servants) murdered a free (innocent) man (Jesus), they then condemned
themselves and their master! So what was the sin of the fallen angels? By
inciting sinful men (bound in sin) to kill the Lord Jesus, they and their lord
(satan) were found guilty of murder! Can you understand? “And when he (the
Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and
of judgment: of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because
I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; of judgment, because the prince
of this world is judged.”

Brother Villa

[votivesoul]

I believe that the angels who rescued Lot and his family indicate that angels have the liberty to act as free agents under the agency of God.

Genesis 19:17-23,

17. And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18. And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19. Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20. Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21. And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22. Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23. The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

Lot negotiated with the angel, by first refusing the instructions he was given. He explains why, and the angel concedes to him, and finds his hands are tied regarding fulfilling God's command to destroy the city, until Lot et al, are safely in Zoar.

This shows:

1.) Angels have the ability to think independently from the mind of God
2.) That they have the ability to compromise and adapt to circumstances on the ground
3.) That they sometimes are forced into delaying or partially abandoning God's commands, for the sake of the greater good
4.) That angels can still nevertheless carry out the spirit, if not the letter, of God's commands, if the end result satisfies the impetus of God when issuing the command

A second story from Daniel sheds light, too, I believe. I will merely summarize here:

An angel was dispatched to Daniel, but was delayed because he could not overcome the Prince of Persia. The Prince of Israel, Michael, had to come and bring aid, so the angel could break through and get to Daniel.

If it was God's will that the angel be sent to Daniel at the very beginning, as the angel claimed, then why didn't God empower the angel to fulfill the command, such that an opposing force in the heavenly realm could withstand the angel and cause the will of God to be delayed in occuring?

See Daniel 10:11-13,

11. And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
12. Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

God, being all-powerful, nevertheless, permitted (if that's the right word, here?) one of his agents to be insufficiently empowered to fulfill His will, such that a second angel had to be dispatched in order to deliver the first from his battle with the Prince of Persia, whatever that is.

This shows that even though the angel fully intended to fulfill God's will, he could not, until help arrived. If angels were not free agents to act independently, there would never be a time when an angel could fail to fulfill God's every command to the final decimal, because in such a case, the only free will that existed, was God's, and why would God intentionally set his agent to fail, so that His divine plans could be so easily thwarted?

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I believe that the angels who rescued Lot and his family indicate that angels have the liberty to act as free agents under the agency of God.
Genesis 19:17-23,
Lot negotiated with the angel, by first refusing the instructions he was given. He explains why, and the angel concedes to him, and finds his hands are tied regarding fulfilling God's command to destroy the city, until Lot et al, are safely in Zoar.
(a:1-4) This shows:
1.) Angels have the ability to think independently from the mind of God
2.) That they have the ability to compromise and adapt to circumstances on the ground
3.) That they sometimes are forced into delaying or partially abandoning God's commands, for the sake of the greater good
4.) That angels can still nevertheless carry out the spirit, if not the letter, of God's commands, if the end result satisfies the impetus of God when issuing the command
A second story from Daniel sheds light, too, I believe. I will merely summarize here:
An angel was dispatched to Daniel, but was delayed because he could not overcome the (b)Prince of Persia. The Prince of Israel, Michael, had to come and bring aid, so the angel could break through and get to Daniel.
(c) If it was God's will that the angel be sent to Daniel at the very beginning, as the angel claimed, then why didn't God empower the angel to fulfill the command, such that an opposing force in the heavenly realm could withstand the angel and cause the will of God to be delayed in occuring?
See Daniel 10:11-13,
(d)God, being all-powerful, nevertheless, permitted (if that's the right word, here?) one of his agents to be insufficiently empowered to fulfill His will, such that a second angel had to be dispatched in order to deliver the first from his battle with the Prince of Persia, whatever that is.
This shows that even though the angel fully intended to fulfill God's will, he could not, until help arrived. If angels were not free agents to act independently, there would never be a time when an angel could fail to fulfill God's every command to the final decimal, because in such a case, the only free will that existed, was God's, and (e) why would God intentionally set his agent to fail, so that His divine plans could be so easily thwarted?

VERY GOOD!

Answering in reverse order:
(e) God NEVER did intend His angels to fail: and they don't. Now, when God created
the angelic host, it was with a free will AND a portion of delegated authority to them:
some with more authority, and some with less. We are able to see that, when He said,
"Let US make man...". This also testifies that there is an angelic heirarchy in Eternity.

(d) "...the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." God's delegated authority
cannot be rescinded except by a greater authority or commandment than the previous
authority. The angel (probably Gabriel) and the prince of Persia's kingdom had equal
power and authority and were stalemated: so Michael was sent to help God's angel.

(c) See previous answer: #c.

(b) Gabriel is the angel that ministers to Israel (Old Testament); Michael, ministers
to the Church (New Testament).

(a) (I REALLY LIKE YOUR REASONING.)
Angels only have as much power and authority as God has delegated to them: they
cannot act above or beyond their scope of delegated authority.

"Thou madest him a little lower than the angels (than El-ohim)."

Brother Villa

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I believe that the angels who rescued Lot and his family indicate that angels have the liberty to act as free agents under the agency of God.

Genesis 19:17-23,



Lot negotiated with the angel, by first refusing the instructions he was given. He explains why, and the angel concedes to him, and finds his hands are tied regarding fulfilling God's command to destroy the city, until Lot et al, are safely in Zoar.

This shows:

1.) Angels have the ability to think independently from the mind of God
2.) That they have the ability to compromise and adapt to circumstances on the ground
3.) That they sometimes are forced into delaying or partially abandoning God's commands, for the sake of the greater good
4.) That angels can still nevertheless carry out the spirit, if not the letter, of God's commands, if the end result satisfies the impetus of God when issuing the command

A second story from Daniel sheds light, too, I believe. I will merely summarize here:

An angel was dispatched to Daniel, but was delayed because he could not overcome the Prince of Persia. The Prince of Israel, Michael, had to come and bring aid, so the angel could break through and get to Daniel.

If it was God's will that the angel be sent to Daniel at the very beginning, as the angel claimed, then why didn't God empower the angel to fulfill the command, such that an opposing force in the heavenly realm could withstand the angel and cause the will of God to be delayed in occuring?

See Daniel 10:11-13,



God, being all-powerful, nevertheless, permitted (if that's the right word, here?) one of his agents to be insufficiently empowered to fulfill His will, such that a second angel had to be dispatched in order to deliver the first from his battle with the Prince of Persia, whatever that is.

This shows that even though the angel fully intended to fulfill God's will, he could not, until help arrived. If angels were not free agents to act independently, there would never be a time when an angel could fail to fulfill God's every command to the final decimal, because in such a case, the only free will that existed, was God's, and why would God intentionally set his agent to fail, so that His divine plans could be so easily thwarted?

The Genesis account strikes me as a good example in favor of angelic free will. The Daniel account, not so much. A lack of free will doesn't mean a lack of will.

Of course, the same might be said concerning the Genesis account.

[Esaias]

Side question: is it possible the Prince of Persia is an angelic being, in the kingdom of God, who saw things differently than Gabriel, thus requiring an intervention from Michael?

Such things happen among Christians, is it not possible among angels as well?