7th Day Sabbath not for New Testament believers

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No verses about a new creation at the cross?

Hebrews 10 tells us flatly that JESUS RESTED after his work of atonement by the cross, and Hebrews 4 tells us to go to that throne when speaking of the rest we must enter. One has to force one’s eyes away from it to not see it.

Please point out which of the following verses mention "new creation at the cross":

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

[Esaias]

Regarding the ritual argument:

You said I failed to prove Sabbath keeping isn't a ritual. However, perhaps you forgot that I never set out to do such a thing?

Also, taking your ritual argument and demonstrating that your line of reasoning necessarily leads to conclusions you don't support is not a straw man fallacy, but a refutation. You are free to repeat the words "straw man" but it doesn't actually change the fact that your line of reasoning necessarily leads to absurd conclusions.

Finally, you said all those other rituals are excluded because Paul never said to stop doing them like he said to stop keeping Sabbath.

But I notice you have still not provided the verse where Paul said "Stop keeping Sabbath"...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I plainly stated it! It's the rest Jesus rested in after his work of new creation when he sat down on the right hand throne, where we are meant to come and rest in his works, instead of avoiding that entrance by continuing to do OUR BEST to get by in righteousness and/or general life itself.

Why do you keep asking this when I plainly stated it already?

When Israel failed to enter God's rest back in the days of the Exodus/Conquest, was it because they "continued to do their BEST to get by in righteousness and/or general life itself"? Or was it because they found "convincing reasons" not to trust and obey God's instructions to them?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Ten Commandments are the representation of all the law of God proposed to mankind. They correctly showed man what was required of man in order to be righteous. They were not wrong nor error. Paul showed us insight about the commandments and indicated they were the ministration of death seeing as breaking the law decreed one was sinful and worthy of death, and man was unable to keep them. Had man not had sin, man could keep them.

All of them are relevant for today, however the shadow aspect Paul spoke about in the fourth cannot be ignored. It is unique. It’s ritualistic, seeing as it is memorial of God resting the 7th day after creation. And now there is a new creation, so we rest in a greater Sabbath, and thereby have no need for the shadow as far as righteousness is concerned.

Paul showed us, also, that the manner of flesh using its natural energy to keep those commandments has been superseded by a greater means of service to God. Oldness of the letter is self making self obey the law with one’s own goodness and energy, whereas the newness of the Spirit is calling on God in faith to empower us to do righteousness. I said that to indicate that reading a list of rules and making ourselves obey them is the oldness of the letter. Not to say those actions are wrong, but it is walking after the flesh to make ourselves obey rules and commandments. The Spirit will cause us to commit the same activities, or lack thereof, if we are led by the Spirit, which is what it means to have those laws written in our hearts. So, they’re all in effect today, but we’re not left to make ourselves obey them, but rather allow the Spirit to lead us and we will find that when the Spirit leads us we will do the things the commandments said to do, and not do the things the commandments said not to do.

Again, however, the fourth commandment was stated by the New Testament to be a shadow of the day of rest in Christ’s new creation, rendering the older shadow fulfilled and expired as to its purpose..

Bumping this for brother Avery so it doesn't get lost in the mix...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

A quick response to the issue of the Galatian heretical calendar:

Galatians 4:3-7 speaks of bondage to the elements of the world, and deliverance from bondage by the coming of Christ so we can be adopted as sons and receive the Spirit. A common error takes the elements of the world to mean any kind of religious calendar whatsoever, bondage to mean observance of any religious calendar, and that Jesus came to deliver people from religious calendars.

But Gal 4 is not talking about gentiles until we get to verse 6 where he uses the pronoun YOU after saying US and WE in referring to the Jews. You are totally breaking the flow of context from chapter 3, where JEWS were distinguished from gentiles by speaking of JEWS under Law before Christ came.

Since Chapter 3 said law was schoolmaster for ISRAEL before Christ, that is carried on into chapter 4 where he says the JEWS were like STUDENTS in grade elementary school. At the time Israel were heirs in tutorship, GENTILES WERE SERVANTS. Israel was not servants. Israel was HEIRS. GENTILES were servants.

Before Jesus came Israelites, though heirs and under tutorship of law, elements of the world, gentiles were serving idols as SERVANTS. A servant compared to an heir is a vast chasm of difference! Servants were not in the FAMILY. HEIRS were FAMILY inheritors. You miss ALL OF THIS aspect of the context.

It cannot be speaking about gentiles in verse 3, because verse 1 distinguished gentiles from Israelites as servants from heirs. A servant was not under tutors and governors of LAW, mentioned as the schoolmaster in chapter 3. They were under idols. HEIRS were the students under schoolmaster of law..

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir (ISRAELITE BEFORE CHRIST), as long as he is a child (BEFORE CHRIST), differeth nothing from a servant (GENTILE UNDER IDOLS), though he be lord of all (ISRAELITES AS HEIRS WOULD INHERIT ALL AS LORDS);
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors (SCHOOLMASTER OF LAW IN CH. 3) until the time appointed of the father (WHEN CHRIST SHOULD COME).


Watch how the Students have to be Israelites under law not gentiles under idols.

Gal 4:3 Even so we (ISRAELITES BEFORE CHRIST UNDER LAW), when we (ISRAELITES BEFORE CHRIST UNDER LAW)were children, (ISRAELITES BEFORE CHRIST UNDER LAW) were in bondage under the elements of the world (TUTORS AND GOVERNORS AND SCHOOLMASTER OF LAW):
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law (ISRAELITES BEFORE CHRIST UNDER LAW), that we might receive the adoption of sons. (SALVATION WHEN CHRIST COMES WHEN HEIRS FINALLY MADE LORDS OF ALL)
Gal 4:6 And because ye (GENTILES WHO WERE SERVAn\NTS (v. 1) UNDER IDOLS BEFORE JESUS) are sons (since GENTILES WERE SAVED FROM IDOLATRY TO CHRIST), God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant (GENTILES WERE SERVANTS OF VERSE 1, BUT NOW FAMILY MEMBERS LIKE JEWS WHO WERE HEIRS IN VERSE 1 BY ADOPTION), but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. (NOW THE GENTILE IS THE HEIR LIKE ISRAEL WAS ALWAYS HEIR IN VERSE 1 BEFORE CHRIST, AND GENTILES ARE NO LONGER SERVANTS AS ARE CONTRASTED FROM ISRAELITES IN VERSE 1)

Your view totally misses the two groups of people in verse 1 depicted as HEIRS, who are Israelites before Christ’s graduation day from tutorship of law, and SERVANTS who are gentiles under idols before Christ.

So, the picture you totally miss is that the Jews under law were not different than the gentiles who were servants under idols before Jesus came, because Jews, though heirs and DESTINED to be lords of all after entering their inheritances, could not enjoy their inheritance while they were students being readied for entrance into inheritance. Basically they were bound under law AWAY FROM ACTUAL LORDSHIP, as opposed to POTENTIAL lordship, AND INHERITANCE, as gentiles were under idolatry and away from inheritance both by virtue of their wicked idolatry and their absence from the FAMILY members whose children were HEIRS.

When you’re a child, though you are an heir, like Israel under law before Jesus, you’re no more inside your inheritance than a gentile under idols as a servant to idols is.

THAT IS WHAT VERSE 1 SAYS. And that demands we realize the elements of the world are the schoolmaster of law mentioned in chapter 3.

This is of course sadly mistaken. Neither Paul nor any Bible writer spoke of God's appointed times (much less the whole of His law) as "elements of the world".

Wrong. He did right there.

In fact, Paul speaks the opposite way in the same epistle, where he says the law that was added because of transgressions was ordained by angels (Gal 3:19). So the law of God was certainly not of the world.

Strawman. I never said it was of the world IN THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED that that term means. It is not contrasting sinful things of the world from heavenly things from God. It is contrasted MATERIAL things that law outwardly demanded as opposed to inward things God demands in the new covenant. Outward circumcision of flesh could be done without inward circumcision of the heart So you completely miss the purpose of using WORLD here. It is only speaking of the outward material emphasis of the things Law used to TEACH A LESSON to be yet fulfilled in the spiritual realm inwardly.

[mfblume]

But what Paul is saying in these verses is easily seen when comparing them to what he says elsewhere. Namely, in Romans 7-8.

The easiest is to see what he said in the chapter JUST BEFORE GAL 4! No need to go anywhere else to compare the tutors and governors of elements of the law to law’s schoolmastery than to go to the very previous chapter.

You are in actuality saying that the tutors and governors of elements of the world (if they’re idolatry), demands that the law of God be considered IDOLATRY!

Read it again!

Servants are not heirs. Isaelites before Christ under Law were not Gentiles But you are saying the servant IS the heir and not that there is just a similarity between two different groups of people in view. You think they’re the one and the same group when Paul says SERVANTS and HEIRS.

But to how your error, again I repeat, THE HEIR is what GENTILES BECAME when they got saved and joined the family of ISRAEL. Before these gentiles were saved, they were OUTSIDE THE FAMILY, NOT HEIRs, and servants to idols. The HEIRS were Israelites under law before Jesus. But when Jesus came, the HEIRS entered LORDSHIP, and the GENTILES JOINED the family to become both HEIRS and LORDS, too!

In Romans 7-8, the same parallel is found as in Galatians 4: bondage, Christ, deliverance, adoption, the Spirit. The exact same ingredients are to be found, in practically the same order.

You miss the fact that GENTILES came into adoption, NOT ISRAELITES in Gal 4. HEIRS are in the family and do not need adoption. They’re heirs before Christ came. GENTILES are ADOPTED into the family so they become heirs as well as lords like the actual heirs become Lords on graduation day.

Here’s the whole picture you fail to see, laid out in Gal 3 through 4.

Kids in school belong to a family of a great name before Christ comes. Their great name makes them heirs by family membership. OTHERS in bondage under idols before Christ came are not heirs but servants to those idols.

Graduation day will bring heirs out of tutorship and schooling of law to inheritance and lordship. When Israel comes into inheritance of what they were heirs for, when Jesus comes, GENTILES under idols got saved and became HEIRS like the Jews always were before Christ came, and BOTH GROUPS enter lordship!

You miss all of that. Romans is dealing with gentiles and Jews both. The adoption aspect speaks of saved gentiles, while chapters 1-3 speak to those who were under law who were Jews,. correcting both groups.

The bondage in Romans is not a bondage of obedience to the law of God, but the bondage of sin (Romans 7:14-23).

Agreed. But that is not the context Gal is using after saying in chapter three that Jews were KEPT under law and SHUT UP away from Christ before Christ came. THAT sense of bondage in chapter 3 explains chapter 4, not bondage in Romans!

Christ is sent to effect deliverance and redemption from the bondage of sin (Romans 7:24-8:8). This makes the Spirit and our adoption available and effectual (Romans 8:9-17).

Amen. Not the context of Gal 4’s bondage though, except for reference to what gentiles were under before Christ, which was not elements of the world, seeing as LAW was that as law was schoolmaster.

You fail to see, and I said this before as well, that SCHOOLMASTER of Gal Chapter 3, which is law, is the TUTORS AND GOVERNORS of chapter 4 which is the elements of the world.

1. He says SCHOOLMASTER IS LAW in chapter 3.

2. He says LAW IS TUTORS AND GOVERNORS in chapter 4.

3. And then he says TUTORS AND GOVERNORS in ch 4 are elements of the world. ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

“NECESSARY fundamentals” school. OF the world because law was comprised of OUTWARD MATERIAL WORLDLY issues they must refrain from etc.

How can you not connect the schoolmaster of chapter 3 to the tutors and governors of chapter 4? The tutors and governors are said to be elements of the world. The schoolmaster equates tutors and governors, and Paul distinctly said the schoolmaster WAS LAW!?

That’s why Paul said in ROMANS 7 that he could not keep the tenth commandment which was an INWARD ISSUE – DO NOT COVET.

Galatians is talking about the same thing:

Bondage to worldly elements (Galatians 4:3). Christ sent to effect deliverance from bondage (Galatians 4:4-5). Adoption and Spirit available (Galatians 4:5-7). It is a perfect parallel.

No it is not.

Gal 4:1-3 is saying the tutors and governors are the elements of the world. And we find out what elements of the world are by comparing the counterpart of tutors and governors in verse 1 wit chapter 3’S schoolmaster! Again, how can you not see that the tutors and governors in 4:1 and the schoolmaster in chapter 3 which is LAW?

If you agree the tutors and governors are LAW in 4:1, due to 3:24, then you have to say the elements of the world, which the tutors and governors are called in 4:3, are LAW.
Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

From verses 1-2 we get this:

HEIRS were UNDER TUTORS AND GOVERNORS. THE FATHER< speaking of God, ORDAINED THOSE TUTORS. And the tutors equate to the LAW which is schoolmaster in chapter 3. GOD ordained Israel being under law LIKE A FATHER OF A FAMILY. APPOINTED BY THE FATHER.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Form verse 3 we apply the state BENEATH tutors and governors, appointed by the father for the children who are heirs, WITH THE ELEMENTS OF THE WORLD. So the FATHER appointed them be under ELEMENTS of the world. He said verse 2 corresponds to verse 1. HEIRS UNDER TUTORS means ISRAEL (THE “WE” in contrast to the “YOU of verse 6) UNDER ELEMENTS OF THE WORLD.

How can you not see that?

And world here is not negative at all like it is elsewhere. It is base compared to heavenly. It is low compared to higher. THAT IS ALL. Not evil. We get that when we see verse 2 and the sub-level aspect of tutors is the sub-level aspect of elements. Why can you not see ELEMENTARY school, elements, is a good thing?

Nowhere does Scripture speak of obeying God's law as "bondage"

Yes it does!
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

THAT is where it says the bondage. THAT is the sense of bondage we’re meant to see.

, in fact Paul taught the exact opposite in Romans 7-8. In Romans 8:2, the law of the Spirit frees a person from the bondage of the law of sin and death.

That is not the LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!!!

The LAW of the Spirit of life is CONTRASTED from TWO OTHER LAWS. Romans 7 mentions the LAW OF GOD comprised of your Sabbath days, etc. And that is contrasted from a second law that Paul “discovered”. He learned that WHEN he would do GOOD, and make attempts to keep the Old Law of God, he failed. This was revealed to be a LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. So the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH caused him to fail to keep the LAW OF GOD. And a THIRD LAW was then learned in Romans 8. The Law of the Spirit of Life is HIGHER than the law of sin and death, and empowers us to override the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit of life IS NOT THE LAW OF THE OLD COVENANT.

[mfblume]

In Romans 8:4-6, Paul contrasts the flesh and the Spirit, the carnal (fleshly) mind and the spiritual mind, walking after the flesh and walking after the Spirit, etc. Then, in Romans 8:7, Paul identifies the fleshly mind as being enmity against God because it is not subject to the law of God.

The carnal, fleshly mind is not subject to the law of God, it does not obey the law of God,

And that's saying the same thing that chapter 7 said when it said Paul could not keep the law of God of the old covenant because the law of sin and death stopped him. But the law of the Spirit of life is not the law of the old covenant.

it is characterized by commandment breaking. But this lawless, disobedient carnal or fleshly mind is contrasted with the mind that follows the Spirit. So the contrast is between those who are " in the flesh", who mind the flesh, whose mind is catnal or fleshly, who break the commandments and do not obey God, are not subject to the law of God, who CAN'T be subject to God's law, on the one hand, with those who are in the Spirit, who mind spiritual things (God's law is spiritual - Romans 7:14, their mind is set on and subject to the law of God), in whom the righteousness of the law is actually fulfilled (that is, in whom the righteous acts commanded by God's law are actually performed), etc.

The righteousness of the law is real. It would have been gained by successfully keeping law if one could do that. But Romans is teaching no one could do that. So... the Lord did, through the law of the Spirit of life what the law of the old covenant could not do. Cause us to do the good things the law of the old covenant failed to get us to do. But the SABBATH issue is unique, as I have been maintaining, since we are NOT to keep a shadow which Sabbath is.

Romans 8:6 says to be fleshly minded is death (produces death, is in fact a condition of spiritual death), which per everywhere in Romans is the product of sin (transgression of God's law).

So the teaching of Paul in Romans, and in Galatians, is consistent.

Agreed. But not in the way you claim it is when speaking of bondages. Gal 3's bondage under law by being SHUT UP and KEPT away from Christ is not the bondage of Romans which is sinful living.

Carnality consists in lawbreaking, not being subject to God's law, being disobedient, in bondage to sin. Whether Jew or Gentile, all are in bondage because of sin (Romans 3:9, Galatians 3:22). Christ came to redeem and deliver His people, not from obedience to God, not from the commandments of God, but from sin, from disobedience, from transgression, from the "power of satan", from the dominion of "the prince of the power of the air", from the ELEMENTS OF THE KOSMOS or world order.

NO NO NO . ELEMENTS of the world are NECESSARY FUNDAMENTALS under which THE FATHER APPOINTED the heirs, Israelites, to live under before Christ came, to keep them there for Christ., from which he would bring them out when he came. How are pagan days NECESSARY FUNDAMENTALS that the FATHER APPOINTED HEIRS to be under? For that is what you are claiming they were appointed by the father to be under, since Gal 4:2 says the FATHER appointed them to be under the tutors of the elementary things.

The result of this deliverance and redemption is not continued and now excused lawlessness and commandment breaking.

Strawman. I never said it was. You not only have MY words mixed up as saying we can live lawlessly, but you mix up Galatians 4:1-3 and get it all wrong.

On the contrary, it is genuine obedience! Romans 6:1-2 declares that those delivered from the bondage of sin are not to continue in sin, because they are dead to sin (not dead to God, or dead to righteousness).

Amen. Being dead to sin means there is no effort of law keeping to live right. There is empowerment of the Spirit through faith to do so. Though we are not under law, we will fulfill what the law tried, but failed, to get us to do, when the Spirit leads us to do righteousness. That is a far cry from lawkeeping.

Romans 7:6 is your lifestyle of serving god in oldness of the letter. Walking after the flesh is more than murder and adultery. What you miss about walking after the flesh is that it is also not relying on the power of the Spirit through the state God put us in as those alive from the idea. Walking after the flesh is trying to make yourself do good using God, which is bound to fail. Paul compared trying to do goo, which always failed, with ceasing from using the flesh to serve God which always causes one to fail, anyway. So much of context you miss in both Romans 7 and Gal 4. I know you cannot see it. But you totally miss it.

The Galatians were a mostly gentile (Greek) church, and as such were previously devil worshipping pagans (Galatians 4:8)

AGREED!

But they're not the heirs of 4:1! The ISRAELITES, of WHOM PAUL WAS, was the HEIR. You miss that because you totally miss the "WE" Paul used in speaking of heirs, while the "YOU" is speaking of gentile GALATIANS.

. They were returning to their pagan roots, desiring to once again go into bondage (verse 9).

No no no.


They were leaving one bondage, which was evil, to another bondage, which was not evil, but was still bondage. They were going to the kindergarten that jews were under, but graduated from, when the time appointed of the father arrived.

This was being brought about by the influence of Jewish heretics. These were not just Jewish Christians who sought to obey God's commandments, but were actually workers of iniquity (LAWLESSNESS).

They were GENTILE CHRISTIANS WHO SOUGHT JEWISH LAW that even JEWS were freed from!

These Jewish heretics did NOT obey God's law, but were promoting gentile circumcision (Galatians 6:13), appealed to divine revelation from angels (cf. Gal 1:8), held doctrines and practices that led to worldly and sinful bondage (Gal 4:9, 5:1, 5:13, 5:16-25, compare with Colossians 2:23).

The Galatian heresy and the Colossian heresy are in fact either the same, or very nearly, the same. An heretical form of Judaism, proselytizing gentiles, demanding gentile circumcision, involved in angel worship or at least angel devotion, certain ascetic practices, yet utterly powerless to produce genuine holiness, rife with sin and lawlessness, with an emphasis of pagan astrological elements and philosophy.

In other words, incipient Jewish Gnosticism.

No. They were legalistic people who never left law and Sabbath keeping, who were getting former gentiles who were idolators to come under HEBREW OLD COVENANT RITUALS that were done away with Christ's coming.

They were Israelites who confessed Christ who were getting gentiles converts to keep Sabbaths and suchlike.

Galatians 4:10 describes the heretical observance of days, months, times, and years. While the unlearned claim this is referring to God's appointments (moedim), the phrase is never used either by the Bible, or by non Christian Jewish sources, to describe the Biblical Feasts days, Sabbaths, new moons, etc. In fact, the Law explicitly forbids the "observance of times" (Lev 19:26, Deut 18:10, Deut 18:14, etc).

IT IS USED RIGHT HERE in Galatians to refer to it, as is clearly seen by redcognizing the plain context that HEIRS under LAW are Israelites before Christ, while SERVANTS under IDOLLS were gentiles before Christ. And

The Galatian calendar is not the Divine calendar given by God, but is "of the world", associated with paganism, produces bondage, and is SINFUL (forbidden by God).

That is not how the sense of the word WORLD is used here at all. And you would see that if you connected the tutors and governors, which Paul said were the elements, with the schoolmaster of law in chapter 3.

What was happening in Galatia was the introduction of certain mystical ideas, a religious calendar syncretized from pagan and Jewish occultic astrology, antinomian in its actual essential character (just like Pharisaism, see Matt 15:6, Mark 7:13), producing the works of the flesh including witchcrafts, and is identified by Paul as a "bewitchment".

Not at all. Totally wrong due to how I explained context above.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When Israel failed to enter God's rest back in the days of the Exodus/Conquest, was it because they "continued to do their BEST to get by in righteousness and/or general life itself"? Or was it because they found "convincing reasons" not to trust and obey God's instructions to them?

Again you miss context by evidence of your words here.

Israel did NOT BELIEVE, so they did not enter the rest. They did not believe they could enter, after God told them they could. Similarly WE DO NOT BELIEVE the cross finished the work to make us righteous when we go about to establish our own through works.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Regarding the ritual argument:

You said I failed to prove Sabbath keeping isn't a ritual. However, perhaps you forgot that I never set out to do such a thing?

You argue about it not being ritualistic, and then I say it is, so why say it is, anyway, now?

Also, taking your ritual argument and demonstrating that your line of reasoning necessarily leads to conclusions you don't support is not a straw man fallacy, but a refutation. You are free to repeat the words "straw man" but it doesn't actually change the fact that your line of reasoning necessarily leads to absurd conclusions.

No, they do not lead to absurd conclusions. saying we must not murder today but have no need of fourth commandment sabbath keeping the way Israel kept it, but instead the way CHRIST kept it, is not what you claim I am saying,. You stramwan my argument into something I never argued.

However, your view leads to believe that the father God appointed Israel to be under idolatry before Christ came, by the way you interpret 4:1-3.

Finally, you said all those other rituals are excluded because Paul never said to stop doing them like he said to stop keeping Sabbath.

But I notice you have still not provided the verse where Paul said "Stop keeping Sabbath"...

He said to stop doing so in Gal 4:10-11. I've said that over and over again. And you realize that it is sabbath days and other days from law when you realize the context is from Gal 3 speaking of schoolmastery of law, and how tutors and governors are that law, which is then revealed to be elements of the world, or ELEMENTARY schoolmastery.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Please point out which of the following verses mention "new creation at the cross":

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 10:11.. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:..
Heb 10:12.. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..
Heb 10:13.. From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool...
Heb 10:14.. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified...