Marriage Rejuvenation?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The same, however, cannot be said of anyone with a marriage license from their local, secular government.

Two guys or two girls can get a license and get married with IDENTICAL legal status as a man and woman, so I think your statement is clearly in error.

[Esaias]

The state does not marry anyone. God does that, via His methods. Those methods are revealed in Scripture only. Ergo, no marriage is marriage unless it conforms to Scripture, regardless what the state does or does not say or do.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I take it that you agreed with the remainder of his post?

I agreed with all of it. I suggest you read Essais' posts slower.

Because what you are doing isn't covered by Esaias.

You aren't a Quaker, therefore you aren't even married under the Quakers, nor under the state. You just don't get it, you are living with a woman and calling it marriage. Yet, you have NEVER answered me. How do you get a divorce? Do you go back to the Quakers, or do you just change partners?

Also if you covered it somewhere in this thread, it should be easy for you to give me a review.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Two guys or two girls can get a license and get married with IDENTICAL legal status as a man and woman, so I think your statement is clearly in error.

I was not factoring that into my post. Since I was dealing with man and a woman (Aquila and Christine, I think he said her name was), my comments at the end were meant only within that purview.

Therefore, a man and woman, saints of the Most High, getting a marriage license from their local government, are not worse off spiritually in any way for having done so.

Two people claiming marriage but not being married, however, are in a different spot spiritually speaking.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Yes, but here's the thing: by circumventing the state of Ohio, you have become a "state" unto yourself. You and your assembly are acting as free, non-state participants in an organization, however it's actually organized, that governs itself as if a state. Ipso facto, a signed Bible before this "state" is a civil contract within the civilization you would call "home church fellowship".

Secondly, even if the state of Ohio didn't recognize the signed Bible as a state-sanctioned marriage, per state law and regulation, the state can still recognize that a signed, binding, legal agreement was entered into, if such a need to make such an argument before the court ever came to light.

You have all stepped outside of, or out from underneath the state, as it pertains to ecclesiastical concerns, which is fine and within the law, to a degree, to do. But when you do that, you become your own entity that has rules and regulations that members of the community are honor-bound to uphold and obey, to be a part of that community. Doing so incorporates you into a legally recognized body. You may not have a recognized "corporate person", such as an LLC might have, but you have by-laws, such as you have shared here in this thread, which effectively acts as the Constitution of your civilization. You even have marriage customs ordained by the community as binding.

All of this makes for a civil contract no matter which way you slice it, even if it's not officially recognized by any outside group. Within your group, you have made a civil contract of marriage that your group recognizes as legitimate per it's own governing body politic. However, this contract was one to which your conscience did not object. But it's still what it is.

Even Adam and Eve had as much. The sign of their marriage was Adam's rib in Eve. His rib inside of her bound them to each other, flesh of each other's flesh, bone of each other's bone, and etc. When Adam said that, he was speaking a vow of marriage, that he and Eve would become one flesh, a promise and commitment that functioned as a legally binding contract, legal in terms of God's Law at the time.

Therefore there's no escaping it. It's not about civil contract, or state recognition, or going to Caesar. That's just the front. Because the reality is, a contract was drafted by your "state", i.e. your house church fellowship, it was signed and dated and ratified by your "state", witnessed and sanctioned by the ruling authorities of the community (that is, your "state"), and, presumably, dedicated to the glory of God, as opposed to Caesar.

All well and good, but what ought to be said is that, it's not civil contracts or state recognition or Caesar's involvement in marriage that's the issue, the issue is what kind of contract does the civilization offer, what particular state are you seeking recognition from, and what overarching authority do you want to be involved, and what, at the rubber meets the road moment, do you feel you ought to choose.

The only question is, if you reject the civil contracts of marriage given by the state (of Ohio, or wherever), and refuse to allow secular government to have any involvement in the marriage, does God approve of those decisions, or does He expect you to work within the secular magisterium He has created and placed over you in the world as rewarders of them that do good and avengers against those who do evil, as God's ministers?

Now, it might be easy to rush into an answer and proceed accordingly. But consider something in the fear of God: if you are wrong, and mistakenly reject the counsel of God in this matter, every action that follows that mistake is sinful. If God doesn't consider you married, because of such a rejection, even if it was done sincerely, but mistakenly, it's not an excuse. To say you are married if/when God says otherwise is to bear false witness. To consummate and experience conjugal "due benevolence", claiming to be married and therefore within your sacred rights, is merely fornication, if such a rejection of the counsel of God in this matter occurs.

The end of such a road is damnation, unless repentance occurs and subjection to the formerly rejected counsel of God takes place.

The same, however, cannot be said of anyone with a marriage license from their local, secular government.

Let us assume everything you said is correct, we still reserve the right to avoid unbelieving courts should we both choose, a right that is surrendered upon getting a civil marriage, would you agree?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I agreed with all of it. I suggest you read Essais' posts slower.

Because what you are doing isn't covered by Esaias.

You aren't a Quaker, therefore you aren't even married under the Quakers, nor under the state. You just don't get it, you are living with a woman and calling it marriage. Yet, you have NEVER answered me. How do you get a divorce? Do you go back to the Quakers, or do you just change partners?

Also if you covered it somewhere in this thread, it should be easy for you to give me a review.

Our house church fellowship isn't Quaker. But like the Quakers, we reserve the right to bless unions outside of state authority. It's our religious liberty to hold any position we've deemed biblical.

When it comes to divorce, we should first ask, What does the Bible require?

[Aquila]

Duplicate post.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Our house church fellowship isn't Quaker. But like the Quakers, we reserve the right to bless unions outside of state authority. It's our religious liberty to hold any position we've deemed biblical.

When it comes to divorce, we should first ask, What does the Bible require?

You give your girlfriend a "bill of divorcement?"

How does that work within you "house church?"

Please, continue.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Aquila eating cornflakes in the nude with his girlfriend and Jesus is smiling at all of this?

Seriously?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Aquila eating cornflakes in the nude with his girlfriend and Jesus is smiling at all of this?

Seriously?

“Abracadabra” is believed to be of Hebrew origin, mostly used in Kabala, and basically means “I will create with words.” “Hokus Pokus” is held to be its Latin counterpart. Maybe Aquila saw too many magic shows, and now believes because he says it's true--it's true?