Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?

[Amanah]

Hebrews 13:17
King James Version
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Hebrews 13:7
King James Version
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

See what you did? You don’t see what you did, do you? You completely left out the most important of the verse!

Paul didn’t say imitate me. He said (in your version) imitate me as I imitate Christ. You left out the “imitate Christ” part!
Freudian slip?

The point that Paul was making is that insomuch as he was following Christ, they should do likewise.

Also. It seems that you are putting yourself on a plane with Paul, which may not be justified.



Certainly a pastor could say that today as long as he doesn’t leave out the Christ part. It’s pretty important. Indeed anyone could say it and it would be valid.

I quoted the whole verse from the offset.

The whole point especially the way you have associated Pastors. Should we not be focusing on man, but rather God himself?

Why do we need men saying follow me as I follow Christ? According to the way
you post, everyone should be following God on their own, they need not another example especially from man.

Also. It seems that you are putting yourself on a plane with Paul, which may not be justified.

Now you’re doing what you have accused others, you’re putting Paul on a pedestal. Your little sentence there is implying that I cant be used as Paul was, should you be doing that?

1 Corinthians 3:5 KJVS
[5] Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I quoted the whole verse from the offset.

The whole point especially the way you have associated Pastors. Should we not be focusing on man, but rather God himself?

Why do we need men saying follow me as I follow Christ? According to the way
you post, everyone should be following God on their own, they need not another example especially from man.

Also. It seems that you are putting yourself on a plane with Paul, which may not be justified.

Now you’re doing what you have accused others, you’re putting Paul on a pedestal. Your little sentence there is implying that I cant be used as Paul was, should you be doing that?

1 Corinthians 3:5 KJVS
[5] Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

I’ll be waiting on you to write more books of the Bible than any other person. I won’t hold my breath.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Well thats a first.

God is using Covid-19 because preachers are demanding tithe.

Only on AFF.....

How else will God be able to reform the churches to rid them of this evil doctrine? God simply hits the reset button. Folks are now being shepherded at a distance, and tithes are the last thing they need to hear in financial hardship. The pastor is losing his authority.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I’ll be waiting on you to write more books of the Bible than any other person. I won’t hold my breath.

Oh my!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Those who have the rule over you are those who have spoken to you the word of God:

Hebrews 13:7
King James Version
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

John Gill commentary
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you
Not the ecclesiastical rulers among the Jews, for to these they were no longer obliged, they being no longer under such tutors and governors; nor civil magistrates, though it was their duty to obey them, even Heathen ones; for as for Christian magistrates, as yet there were none; but their spiritual guides and governors, the same that are mentioned ( Hebrews 13:7 ) these the apostle exhorts them to "obey": by constantly tending upon the word preached by them, and hearkening to it; by receiving it with faith and love, as it appears agreeable to the Scriptures; for a contrary behaviour is pernicious to souls, and highly resented by God; and by being present at, and joining with them in the ordinances of Christ, as administered by them; and by regarding their admonitions, counsels, and advice:

and submit yourselves;
to the laws of Christ's house, as put in execution by them; and to their censures and reproofs, as delivered by the authority of the church; for they are spiritual fathers, and children should obey their parents, and submit to them; they are the ambassadors of Christ, stand in his stead, and represent him, wherefore their authority is great; and they are pastors or shepherds of the flock, whom the sheep should follow:

for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account:
they watch not for themselves, for their worldly gain and advantage, and for the estates of men; but for the souls of men, to do them good, to comfort and edify them, to feed them with knowledge and understanding, and for the salvation of them; as such that must give an account to their own consciences, that they discharge their work aright, or they cannot be satisfied; and to the church, to whom they minister, to whom they are accountable, if they are dilatory and negligent; and especially as such as must stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and give an account to him of their ministry, of their use of talents committed to them, and of souls that are put under their care and charge; how they have discharged their duty to the souls of men, and how these have behaved towards them under the ministry of the word: the Alexandrian copy and the Vulgate Latin version read, "for they watch, as those that must give an account for your souls": the sense is much the same:

that they may do it with joy, and not with grief;
either do their work with joy, cheerfully; which they do, when they are obeyed and submitted to; when men attend upon the word and ordinances administered by them, and receive advantage, and grow in grace and spiritual knowledge; when they abide by the Gospel, and walk worthy of it; otherwise they do their work heavily, and with sorrow: or else give up their account with joy, and not with grief; either at the throne of grace, where they either rejoice or complain; or at the great day, when they will be witnesses, either for or against those that have been committed to them:

for that is unprofitable unto you;
for whose souls they watch; that is, the latter would be so, either to do their work sorrowing, or to give up their account by way of complaint; either of them must be to the disadvantage of such persons that occasion grief and sorrow.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Now you’re doing what EB does. Accusing me of saying something that I haven’t said and believing something I don’t believe. You are telling lies as well.

I believe Hebrews is a great letter for us to study. I also believe that it should be taken in context.

To whom was Hebrews written? Because it matters. We can study about sacrificing goats in the Bible, it doesn’t mean we should be doing so, nor does it mean that we don’t want to include Leviticus as part of the Bible.

So, to attempt to straighten out your lies, I do think Hebrews should be included in the Bible. In my opinion, it should be included in the New Testament. I also believe in rightly dividing the Word.

If you would like to know what I believe, just ask, preferably put a question mark at the end of your question. However, in the spirit of Paul, I would recommend that you ask your husband. I think you have one.

Why did you fail to address her main point?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Yes, EB is right...covid. God is using it.

I almost died of Covid because God wants to stop pastors in their tracks from collecting tithes?

I’m not a pastor nor do I believe in tithing.

You are a fool.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I have to admit that I was concerned for you in your absence.

Thank you for proving my point. You are a hypocrite and you don't care. Prayed for me? No, far from it. You beat your drum over tithing. Anyone who challenges your false premise and tries to bring balance to the view, you run a thread an additional four pages. Not matter what the thread was originally about. If you need to admit something tell it to whatever god you pray to.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I even said a prayer for you.

As effective as a Buddhist

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

EB,

Read this post to your wife and ask her if this is what she means by Christian cursing.

She doesn't view you as a Christian. But let me leave it as that.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

You have accused MTD of Christian cursing. Your Own behavior is an example of what you project onto MTD.

Otherwise, I noticed you had a hiatus from AFF. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. It might be time for another break.

Mike is nuts, you might want to start competing with him for lunacy?

Tithemonster, I always knew your anti tithe vitriol was due to a pastor problem you have. That's nothing knew, but it's nice to see you get it all out in the open. So, what about church government, yes, no, is it supposed to be supported? Yes, maybe, never? For someone who knows what the problems seem to be you never give out any solutions.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

I almost died of Covid because God wants to stop pastors in their tracks from collecting tithes?

I’m not a pastor nor do I believe in tithing.

You are a fool.

God gave you COVID because God doesn't like the UPC preaching on tithes? America isn't all in the UPC, not all Apostolics are in the UPC.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Oh my!

Jesus told His disciples to be as perfect as the Father. John tells us walk in the light as Jesus is in the light. But you can be as the Apostle Paul unless your correspondence is found in the Bible? Nostradamus1968, consider the source.