Christmas is pagan

[Amanah]

I'm not a hardliner like Esaias, but he is right, Christmas is undeniably pagan.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Anything Jehovah's Witness believes and practices, I do the opposite.

They believe people must abstain from witchcraft and occultism.... so you do the opposite????

Rather strange way of doing things.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

They believe people must abstain from witchcraft and occultism.... so you do the opposite????

Rather strange way of doing things.

I am sure you knew I meant on this issue without having to say that, but keep chewing on that tin foil.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

When I was 20 years old, I attended a Baptist play entitled, "Wise Men Still Seek Him". I was moved to tears when, after the pageant part was over, a business man in suit and tie knelt before the crib scene, a construction worker came out and knelt down, a baker, a housewife, etc. It was very moving.

Later, my mother and I attended a viewing of Billy Graham's play, The Prodigal. I had to get up and go into the bathroom because of my tears. My mother was very staunch about crying in public or expressing too much emotion at all.

God used those things as He worked to position my heart to receive Him a few years later. That is my experience.

Christmas for me is a celebration of the birth of Jesus. Whether that was the actual time He was born or not isn't relevant to me. There are many people, like myself, who attend pageants being stirred every year. And I like that very much. I know it took a few years for me to understand my true need of God, but I never forgot that Baptist pageant. I was touched so deeply. The message came so loud and clear - Wise Men Still Seek Him.

I will be decorating next week. I purchased 20 rustic stars that I will shabby chic with white chalk paint. They have tiny stars punched out in the middle for the light to come through. It will remind me of the many stars out the night the shepherds were on the hillside tending sheep.

And I will remind my grandchildren, like my mother did for me - Jesus is the Reason for the Season.

Anything Jehovah's Witness believes and practices, I do the opposite.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Good! So we can repurpose pentagrams and black candles for Jesus! Santeria, here we come!

My point is, while we agree that many of these things have pagan origins, today they are far removed from those origins and serve only as cultural "decorations". Your common American will cross their eyes in boredom if one goes into detail about those pagan origins.

Here's my thought... just because someone wears a cross it doesn't make them a Christian. Therefore, just because a Christian hangs a wreath, it doesn't make them pagan.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It's a family tradition.



This does not apply to pagan heathen devil-worship (un)holy days. Having faith is required to please God. Anything without faith is sin. Faith comes by hearing, and that hearing comes by the Word of God. And the Word of God explicitly condemns the use of pagan devil worship rites as part of the worship of God. Therefore, it is biblically IMPOSSIBLE to "have faith to keep Christmas, Halloween, Easter, participate in idol worship" or anything condemned by God.

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Revelation 2:20-23 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. (21) And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. (22) Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. (23) And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Amen, eat things actually sacrificed to idols. Most Christmas trees are plastic and are only decorative.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It's not about what it means to us. But what it means to God. Paul didn't go on about "it's all about the thoughts and intents of the heart" when he said you CANNOT partake of both the table of devils and of the Lord's table.

But it is indeed a matter of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Does the heart think and intend to be separated from devil worship, and separated to God? Or does the heart figure it can do whatever it wants as long as "it's for a reason that seems right"?

When God was dealing with only one nation, keeping that nation separate from all other cultures was paramount. However, in Christ's Kingdom we have every nation, kindred, people, and tongue integrated into a single body. To assume that all will give up their cultural distinctive to become "Jewish lite" is a bit silly. However, it should be expected that the pagan meaning of those things would fall away, leaving mere cultural traditions, or even a redefining of those traditions to suit Christian conviction. After all, Paul used the pagan altar to an unknown god to communicate the Gospel to a people steeped in idolatry.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. I'm self employed.
2. I'm self employed.
3. I don't carry tarps around and the tarps I have are used for covering things like lawn mowers and stuff.
4. I try not to shop at Walmart at any time if I can help it. Walmart offers the WORST shopping experience of any place I have EVER been. Can never find what I'm actually wanting, aisles and aisles of cheap low quality junk, and forget about customer service. Oh, and always without fail, at the busiest hours... only one or two checkout lanes open. While twenty or thirty employees stand around watching everything.

But doesn't that assume that everyone should be like you?

I'm Scott-Irish, and I'm rather proud of my heritage and culture. Honestly, I don't know why we are at war with ourselves. African Christians, Asian Christians, Latin Christians, etc. all keep their cultural distinctions, and no one bats an eye. But while European culture is always "of the devil". I think we should be proud of our history, culture, traditions, and customs... even though we've dropped the old pagan gods and have turned to God in Christ Jesus.

[Aquila]

Most also assume that some things are associated with paganism without truly researching the issue. For example, the date of December 25th being chosen to celebrate Christ's birth is actually rooted in an ancient Jewish belief... not paganism. In fact, the pagan festival of the “Birth of the Unconquered Sun” instituted by the Roman Emperor Aurelian on 25 December 274, was an attempt to produce a pagan alternative to the growing Christian observance of Christmas in the hopes of reviving paganism. Those who wish to claim that the church assumed December 25th from the pagans actually have it backwards. They pagans got the date from Christians.

For those who wish to know more about this, you can read about it here:

Calculating Christmas

The Story Behind December 25
by William J. Tighe

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archive...id=16-10-012-v

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. I'm self employed.
2. I'm self employed.

So you've never had a client offer you something extra during the holidays - tip or some sort of food/candy?

My first job was a paper route when I was 11 years old. I looked forward to Christmas because people on my route, especially the elderly, would stop me and give me some sort of gift - either a monetary tip or a basket/pan of cookies or candy.