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  #51  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:05 AM
Monterrey Monterrey is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

Esaias, I want to explain why I wrote about open doors.

As the thread is titled, it is about so-called generational curses.

Now, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with what is taught out there, I do know that spiritual oppression does exist.

In regards to generational curses, what are your thoughts on them?

Do you believe that spirits can run in a family?

How does it get control of a family if you do?
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  #52  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:12 AM
Monterrey Monterrey is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I'm not trying to fight, I'm just asking. I don't recall any Scripture where Jesus, the apostles, or any prophets provided any "find the door" type counselling to demonised people as part of getting rid of the demon. You ask where does the demonic oppression come from? Why do you ask? Doesn't the Bible delve into that subject?

Well, actually, it seems it doesn't. I don't know any passages where anybody provided teaching on "where demonic oppression comes from". Nobody was looking into anybody's childhood traumas as part of exorcising demons. Maybe in the zohar, but not in the Bible.

That convinces me of the fact that such "background information" is wholly irrelevant to the subject. God didn't see fit to give us doctrine in that area. Why not? Because it's irrelevant. He DID however give us power to cast the demons out and send them on their way.

I would say the example in Matt 12 you cited is more of a warning against sin. Once cleansed from sin, going back to sin results in a worse fate, like a dog back to its vomit. I mean, are there examples of demoniacs being healed, then winding up possessed again? In the Bible, I mean? Jesus was telling the Pharisees they were going to wind up 7 times worse than they then currently were. Which is what happened historically.

If a person is delivered on Sunday, and possessed again next Wednesday, maybe they were never delivered in the first place? Or else, the problem isn't a demon, but something else. Sin can't be "cast out" of someone, it has to be repented of.
I agree with you that it is not recorded about Jesus and His disciples using this particular language...

Paul on the other hand does let us know that unforgiveness to a person will give the devil and advantage. I would liken that to an open-door situation for a spirit to work.

As far as sin not being cast out... we are not talking about sin we are talking about demonic oppression and whether it can be passed down generation to generation.
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  #53  
Old 10-12-2019, 03:14 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

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Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
As far as sin not being cast out... we are not talking about sin we are talking about demonic oppression and whether it can be passed down generation to generation.
I believe that families can have spiritual problems which seem to run from mother to daughter, or father to son. But calling them generational leans to a mathematical problem. I'll show you why. You married your wife, and with your wife came a set of grandparents, yet, these grandparents each have a set of grandparents. The same goes with you. Therefore if we roll that back a 100 years we end up with a squad of demons that would make the demoniac from Gadarene look empty. I deal with a lot of Derek Prince leftovers here in Fort Lauderdale he was part of the Fort Lauderdale Five. They left behind a lot of messed up people. Anyway, one of DP's teachings had to do with Generational curses which teach that you have a prevalence towards sins of your parents. Even after you have received the Holy Ghost, and been living for God (without any problems) but the ministry you are under keep an eye on you to list your behavior. This was the Shepherding movement of the Fort Lauderdale Five. Also the misuse of the term "familiar spirit" to refer to FAMILY SPIRITS. The term is strictly Elizabethan in origin, and it pertain to witchcraft and wizardry. It meant to have a demon guide, like Joseph Smith's Moroni, William Branham's angel of the lord, and Muhammad's Gabriel. Demons sent to assist the witch or false prophet. A family locked up into certain issues is because their parents, relatives, neighbors, school teachers, or even elders of their religion, caused improper influence. Opening doors which were already cracked open. Therefore allowing spiritual activity to enter in and take over, until they repent, or are delivered from their demons.
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  #54  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:49 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
Esaias, I want to explain why I wrote about open doors.

As the thread is titled, it is about so-called generational curses.

Now, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with what is taught out there, I do know that spiritual oppression does exist.

In regards to generational curses, what are your thoughts on them?

Do you believe that spirits can run in a family?

How does it get control of a family if you do?
1. It depends on what is meant by "generational curses". What curse? Who placed it? On whom? What exactly is being talked about? This clarification is necessary because the Bible doesn't talk about "generational curses" per se, as a term. So we have to get a definition and then search Scripture to affirm, deny, or modify the definition.

2. It depends on what you mean by spirit? Sometimes a spirit is an intelligent sentient being, sometimes it (may be) more like an attitude or disposition. He has a kind spirit means he has a kind attitude/disposition, not a kind demon or familiar. Etc.

Authentic witchcraft teaches that witchery and being a witch is hereditary, one inherits the "gift" from parents etc, along with familiar(s) which are passed down. So no Llewellyn Courses for the masses. I suppose in such a case there might be spirits associated with a person/witch that can be handed off so to say to an offspring, but I also suspect the offspring would be a willing participant.

I wholly believe once a person repents and is baptised whatever was hanging on to them loses all power. Interestingly, an old witch's tale says to escape a hex or spell pass over running water. An older version requires swimming across a stream or river. Which I think points to an old but obviously corrupted understanding of baptism.

I also believe individuals inherit more than just physical traits from their parents. An example, my dad's side of the family is literally stereotypically Irish: drinking and fighting, rabble rousing and unbelievable skill at profanity and hilarious stinging insults. Yes, I recognise those tendencies in myself. And in my kids to a degree, even though they weren't raised in a drinking cussing fighting environment. Not saying I or my kids are drinking cussing fighters, either lol. But we seem to have a latent ability or knack for that stuff. Thankfully Jesus is in control so it's more of a curiosity and inside joke than anything else. But is that some kind of "spirit"? I've known others with a family trait of nerdy fascination with math and engineering vocations. Is that an inherited spirit of calculus? Yet clearly something psychological is being passed on. I'm sure environment has a lot, maybe everything, to do with it. Learned behaviour? Not sure, in all cases.

And this can apply to almost everything. But ascribing supernatural demonic influences to these things seems extraordinary, and would require extraordinary evidence, in my opinion. A woman with migraines, whose mother had migraines... Is that an inherited migraine demon? Or an inherited physical trait? Or a learned behaviour? Or coincidence? Nuclear waste in the water supply?

I do think people often seem over eager to find demons behind every bush. I absolutely reject the idea a common adulterer has a demon and needs deliverance. Rather he needs to repent! Same with the thief, liar, and yes even the soothsayer and diviner. Is that not Biblical?

I also think there's a lot of unexplained and unexplainable stuff out there, for which I really can't form much of an opinion without getting all speculative and likely off the rails.

I just want to think and believe the way the Bible does.
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Last edited by Esaias; 10-13-2019 at 12:53 AM.
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  #55  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:06 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
I agree with you that it is not recorded about Jesus and His disciples using this particular language...

Paul on the other hand does let us know that unforgiveness to a person will give the devil and advantage. I would liken that to an open-door situation for a spirit to work.

As far as sin not being cast out... we are not talking about sin we are talking about demonic oppression and whether it can be passed down generation to generation.
The problem, though, is Biblically devil is a generic word, and doesn't always refer to demonic entities, but often rather refers to crabby people to be avoided and on the lookout for.

So which devil was Paul speaking about in the passage you mentioned? And, even if that was referring to spirit activity, I think there is a big difference between making space for the devil to run amok and create problems, on the one hand, and outright demonisation on the other?
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  #56  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:56 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

If generational curses were only involving Israel, and I believe that “Israel” was taken care of in 70AD, then what was there problem? Why did both the Dad and Son struggle with depression which lead to their suicide? I believe we need to wake up and start answering these questions. So, instead of a generational curse, can we say that was a familiar spirit? That the Dad entertained probably came from his dad or from an event in his childhood and that spirit then tormented his son? We need to wake up and see the spirit realm is very real, curses still do exist, and we’re seeing many upci, wpf, aljc etc... struggling with depression, anxiety, perversion, were seeing cancers on the rise, sicknesses unto death in the church! Hear me, the spirit realm is exposing our weakness!
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  #57  
Old 10-13-2019, 02:53 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

The bible doesn't mention opening a door for the devil, but it does say not to give the devil a place in your life.
When we are baptized in Jesus name we are freed from sin (God's Part), but we have a part also,
our part is to walk worthy of our calling, having our mind and way of living renewed by the Spirit of Christ.

Quote:
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
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  #58  
Old 10-13-2019, 02:57 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
The bible doesn't mention opening a door for the devil, but it does say not to give the devil a place in your life.
When we are baptized in Jesus name we are freed from sin (God's Part), but we have a part also,
our part is to walk worthy of our calling, having our mind and way of living renewed by the Spirit of Christ.
So, I don't think it is so much a generational curse as it is learning your parents attitudes, thoughts, and speech patterns.
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  #59  
Old 10-13-2019, 08:07 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

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Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
I know I am going to get some flack about this but lets expound on the open door idea.

1)What is the difference between oppression and possession?

My answer to this is as follows.

1a- I see the difference as it is a point of ownership. Satan can possess a sinner but a saint of God has been bought by the blood. A sinner can be possessed but a saint can be oppressed.
1b- We see Israel, as our example, coming out of Egypt one time. They were no longer possessed by Egypt. But after that they were oppressed several different times needing deliverance.

2) Where does a spirit gain control of a sinner?

2a- A sinner can have that begin through environment, through the actions of their parent, through their own sins.

3) If a saint of God is struggling with oppression where did that come from?

3a- The Saint of God has to let that spirit back in to control them through an action or sin.

What thinks Unregistered?
Agree, possession is ownership! A sinner can open themselves to spirits through many different avenues. As a child through a traumatic event, broken homes, parents that have no unity. A saint of God will deal with oppression because the ownership is Jesus through the blood. With that said, please keep in mind that a mayor can be in charge of a city, yet there are part of that city that can be under the ownership of gangs, corrupt business man etc... the spirit realm works the same way

A spirit needs a body to fulfill the desire they have, for example if it’s a demon of lust it needs a body to fulfill that desire, if it’s a spirit of suicide it needs a body for that purpose. I think of a demon as a human without a body.

I believe in the Pentecostal and apostolic ranks we deal with mostly familiar spirits, because the older generation denied the spiritual realm and now there children are dealing with it.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:36 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Generational Curses?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post

I believe in the Pentecostal and apostolic ranks we deal with mostly familiar spirits, because the older generation denied the spiritual realm and now there children are dealing with it.
Younger generation claiming their elders were ignorant or in denial... where have I heard that before?
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