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Old 10-29-2019, 09:38 AM
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The gospel of Matthew

According to Professor Thomas F. X. Noble University of Notre Dame:

Quote:
The Gospels were written between the 60s and the 80s, perhaps even the early 90s. Mark is the first Gospel, circa 65, but Papias said in the 2nd century, “Matthew wrote the oracles in Hebrew.” No such text survives, but it is possible that Matthew prepared an Aramaic book of some kind, then revised it, in Greek, in line with Mark’s narration
from one of his lectures:

Quote:
Jesus and the New Testament Lecture 23

One of the things that began to happen in the 2nd century, in what we call the post-apostolic age, and what we may also think of as the postbiblical age, is that a group of Christian writers, whom we call the apologists, began explaining their new faith to the ancient world. In the long run, the most momentous development of the Pax Romana was the emergence of a new religious faith that would eventually sweep the Roman world before it. This is not a phenomenon that contemporaries expected or that seems so obvious in prospect as it does in retrospect.

Christians were a tiny sect in a small, backward, unimportant province. The Mediterranean world was rich in mythical, religious, and philosophical experience. It would not have been easy for any newcomer to make its way. The cults of the Roman world were not casual, not parts of people’s private sphere. Religion constituted ta patria, one’s paternal inheritance. The calendar, basic events of life, public buildings, literary culture, and so on were all deeply marked by religion.

In the second place, from a strictly historical point of view, our sources are late and limited in what they tell us. The oldest written materials are the Pauline and Catholic Epistles that date from 49 to 62. These represent a first attempt to begin to systematize teaching and to create an official version of the past. They give evidence of controversy.

The Gospels were written between the 60s and the 80s, perhaps even the early 90s. Mark is the first Gospel, circa 65, but Papias said in the 2nd century, “Matthew wrote the oracles in Hebrew.” No such text survives, but it is possible that Matthew prepared an Aramaic book of some kind, then revised it, in Greek, in line with Mark’s narration.
The Foundations of Western Civilization
Professor Thomas F. X. Noble University of Notre Dame

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Last edited by Amanah; 10-29-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:58 AM
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

more on the subject:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2501.htm

Home > Fathers of the Church > Church History (Eusebius)

Quote:
Chapter 8. The Statements of Irenæus in regard to the Divine Scriptures.
1. Since, in the beginning of this work, we promised to give, when needful, the words of the ancient presbyters and writers of the Church, in which they have declared those traditions which came down to them concerning the canonical books, and since Irenæus was one of them, we will now give his words and, first, what he says of the sacred Gospels:
2. Matthew published his Gospel among the Hebrews in their own language, while Peter and Paul were preaching and founding the church in Rome.
3. After their departure Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, also transmitted to us in writing those things which Peter had preached; and Luke, the attendant of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel which Paul had declared.
4. Afterwards John, the disciple of the Lord, who also reclined on his bosom, published his Gospel, while staying at Ephesus in Asia.

Last edited by Amanah; 10-29-2019 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 12:46 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
According to Professor Thomas F. X. Noble University of Notre Dame:



from one of his lectures:



The Foundations of Western Civilization
Professor Thomas F. X. Noble University of Notre Dame

PUBLISHED BY:
THE GREAT COURSES Corporate Headquarters 4840 Westfields Boulevard
Suite 500 Chantilly, Virginia 20151-2299
Phone: 1-800-832-2412 Fax: 703-378-3819
www.thegreatcourses.com
Copyright © The Teaching Company, 2002
The whole Hebrew Matthew is refuted with “upon this rock” which only works in Greek. As for Papias he was obviously incorrect.
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Old 10-29-2019, 01:02 PM
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

Sister, we discussed all these so called quotes in FZwords’ anti-Matthew 28:19 threads. What’s your opinion on this? My thoughts are that some take like Papias and Esubius like they were Apostles. Josephus is quoted on the same level but Josephus has some major issues trying to accurately relay his own religion, let alone current events. Let me ask you this? How many different versions do we have for what happened during the attack on the Twin Towers 9/11? Bin Laden died how many times? How will history record George Bush, Bill Clinton, or Donald Trump? It would be safe to say that if NDavid recorded Donald Trump’s presidency it would be vastly different from how Scott Pita wound record it. Therefore ancient historians need to be examined a bit closer. A all Hebrew Matthew which has the missionary call in Matthew 28:20 would hardly be used to evangelize the whole known world which spoke Greek.
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Old 10-29-2019, 01:09 PM
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

I think Matthew may have written an Aramaic "Sayings of Jesus" which has been lost. That is not the Gospel of Matthew, though. His Gospel was written in Greek. Much research has been done showing Matthew relies in part on Mark and relates to Luke's Gospel. The Raiders of the Lost Matthew are on a goose chase.
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Old 10-29-2019, 01:16 PM
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I think Matthew may have written an Aramaic "Sayings of Jesus" which has been lost. That is not the Gospel of Matthew, though. His Gospel was written in Greek. Much research has been done showing Matthew relies in part on Mark and relates to Luke's Gospel. The Raiders of the Lost Matthew are on a goose chase.
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Old 10-29-2019, 02:57 PM
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

Bro Benincasa, I'm watching this professor's lectures via a teaching company app, and posted this quote to get clarification from my Apostolic brethren, who are specialists on the subject. The professor is an historian, with a broad, generalist perspective.

The course is a series of 48 lectures on Western Civ I.

Last edited by Amanah; 10-29-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:40 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I think Matthew may have written an Aramaic "Sayings of Jesus" which has been lost. That is not the Gospel of Matthew, though. His Gospel was written in Greek. Much research has been done showing Matthew relies in part on Mark and relates to Luke's Gospel. The Raiders of the Lost Matthew are on a goose chase.
This would explain the historical reference.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:10 PM
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Bro Benincasa, I'm watching this professor's lectures via a teaching company app, and posted this quote to get clarification from my Apostolic brethren, who are specialists on the subject. The professor is an historian, with a broad, generalist perspective.

The course is a series of 48 lectures on Western Civ I.
I understand, and appreciate you would seek clarification. Yet, what are your thoughts concerning what you heard in the lecture? Also, What was the professor’s name?
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:03 PM
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Re: The gospel of Matthew

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
I understand, and appreciate you would seek clarification. Yet, what are your thoughts concerning what you heard in the lecture? Also, What was the professor’s name?
Prof Noble teaches that Matthew and Luke are derived from Mark, differing by the addition of a source called Q, which are the sayings of Jesus:

Mark + Q= Matthew
Mark + Q= Luke

So, he is claiming that Matthew and Luke are derivative rather than first person accounts written by inspiration, which is blasphemy.

But, my question was about the possibility of Matthew having been penned in Hebrew or Aramaic before being translated into Greek, to which you and Esaias responded no.

Last edited by Amanah; 10-29-2019 at 07:07 PM.
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