Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:27 AM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
One Thing-Phil 3:13-14


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 7,616
Generational Curses?

A facebook friend made the following post:

Quote:
Generational curses are real!! My father was suicidal and committed suicide, he did not succeed. My brother committed suicide, died and was brought back. Other brother committed suicide and died. I suffered with suicidal thoughts for 5 years. Suicide is still running through my family. When people hear about curses they disregard it with “Hokus Pokus” mumbojumbo. It is very real but most don’t want to believe in that realm. Satan wants you dead period! Yes the devil is real and so is God. God wants you to have life and life more abundantly. Only through Christ can you be saved!!
CARM says:

Quote:
Do the sons bear the sins of the fathers or not?

Exodus 20:5, Deuteronomy 5:9 and Deuteronomy 24:16; Ezekiel 18:20

Yes, they do.

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"
(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"
(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."
(1 Cor. 15:22) - "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."

No, they don't.

(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

(Ezekiel 18:20)--"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

Exodus 20:5 is, of course, among the ten commandments. The Ten Commandments are arranged in covenant form. The Suzerain-Vassal treaty pattern of the ancient near east is followed in the Ten Commandments. This arrangement included an introduction of who was making the covenant (Exodus 20:2), what the covenant maker had done (20:2), laws (20:3-17), rewards (20:6,12), and punishments (20:5, 7).

Covenantally, when a father misleads his family, the effects of that misleading are often felt for generations. This is because the father is being covenantally unfaithful, and God has stipulated that there are punishments to breaking the covenant with God. That is the case with these verses that deal with the sins visited upon the children. If a father rejects the covenant of God and takes his family into sin and rejects God, the children will suffer the consequences--often for several generations. Whether or not this is fair is not the issue. Sin is in the world; consequences of sin affected many generations.

On the other hand, Deuteronomy 24:16 is dealing with legal matters as the context 24:6-19 shows. Ezekiel 18:20 is merely recounting the Law of the Pentateuch. Therefore, the context of the second set of verses is dealing with the legality aspect within the Jewish court system. The previous set of verses deal with God visiting upon the descendants of the rebellious the consequences of the rebellious fathers' sins.

As a further note on this issue, there is a concept in the Bible called Federal Headship. This means that the male, the father, represents the family. We see this in the garden of Adam and Eve. She was the first one to eat of the fruit; she was the first one to sin. However, the Bible states that sin entered the world through Adam (Rom. 5)--not Eve. This is because Adam was the Federal Head of all mankind. Furthermore we see in the Hebrews 7:7-10 the following:

"But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater. 8And in this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. 9And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, 10for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him."

In the verses in Hebrews we see that Levi, who was a descendant of Abraham, paid tithes to Melchizedek while still in the loins, "seed," of his father Abraham even though Levi was not yet alive. In other words, Abraham, the father, represented his descendants. As Abraham paid tithes, so also did Levi. Therefore, we can see the concept of Federal Headship represented in the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. We can conclude that God will visit the iniquities of the fathers upon the descendants because the fathers have failed to be covenantally faithful. Yet, we see in the other verses a declaration of legality in dealing with people. There is no contradiction.
https://carm.org/do-sons-bear-the-si...fathers-or-not
Can suicide be a generational curse?

Last edited by Amanah; 10-10-2019 at 04:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:14 AM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Master ThreadKiller


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 22,927
Re: Generational Curses?

A curse can't affect you after you are dead. Through baptism in His Name we are dead, buried with Christ, and raised again. We are then freed from any such things.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - http://www.robertwr.com/

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:14 AM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
One Thing-Phil 3:13-14


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 7,616
Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
A curse can't affect you after you are dead. Through baptism in His Name we are dead, buried with Christ, and raised again. We are then freed from any such things.
beautiful point!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:50 AM
Evang.Benincasa's Avatar
Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 35,582
Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
A facebook friend made the following post:



CARM says:



Can suicide be a generational curse?
Sister generational curses only pertain to the covenant people of Israel. They made the covenant with God, and if they broke the covenant they and their "generations" were under the penalty. In Ezekiel 18 we are showed the promise of the New Israel through Christ where the covenant is made new through the cross. Deuteronomy 24:16 is enforced through Christ. Deuteronomy 5:9-10 explain to the Old Covenant holders their choices Ezekiel 44:23. Everything that God had implemented in the Old testament Law which dealt with blessing and cursing had a way out. That way out is through Christ. Yet, the Israelites also were taught the mercy of Christ in the Law,2 Chronicles 7:14. So, what about us who are in the Apostolic Church? Have we not entered back into Eden (New Covenant) through the Cross Colossians 2:14? The thief on the cross may of worried about his generational curse, he may of not, yet through Jesus Christ's atonement he would be in the covenant with Jesus, therefore having access to the tree of life. A Judean being grafted back into His own tree. Generational curses were mainly through influences of parental guidance, but still only had power over those who were TRIBAL GENERATIONS, not you or I who are connected to no tribe whatsoever. Even if we could track our lineages back to some far off ancestor way back in the hills of Kentucky, we would find that they weren't at Mount Sinai, or went through conversion of circumcision into an Israelite tribe. The whole Generational curse hullabaloo was brought to us through those who don't understand what the Bible means by genealogy. Way too many people roll their eyes when they come to Biblical genealogy and therefore thinks its a non issue. But there was a reason a Israelite's/Judean's genealogy went all the way back Adam. Jesus' genealogy as well, That through the blood of Christ all Israel would be saved. Daniel 9:11 would be overturned by Romans 11:26.
__________________
"Don't Kill The Messenger" ~Sophocles

Last edited by Evang.Benincasa; 10-10-2019 at 06:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:53 AM
Evang.Benincasa's Avatar
Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 35,582
Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
A curse can't affect you after you are dead. Through baptism in His Name we are dead, buried with Christ, and raised again. We are then freed from any such things.
__________________
"Don't Kill The Messenger" ~Sophocles
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:22 AM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
One Thing-Phil 3:13-14


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 7,616
Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Sister generational curses only pertain to the covenant people of Israel. They made the covenant with God, and if they broke the covenant they and their "generations" were under the penalty. In Ezekiel 18 we are showed the promise of the New Israel through Christ where the covenant is made new through the cross. Deuteronomy 24:16 is enforced through Christ. Deuteronomy 5:9-10 explain to the Old Covenant holders their choices Ezekiel 44:23. Everything that God had implemented in the Old testament Law which dealt with blessing and cursing had a way out. That way out is through Christ. Yet, the Israelites also were taught the mercy of Christ in the Law,2 Chronicles 7:14. So, what about us who are in the Apostolic Church? Have we not entered back into Eden (New Covenant) through the Cross Colossians 2:14? The thief on the cross may of worried about his generational curse, he may of not, yet through Jesus Christ's atonement he would be in the covenant with Jesus, therefore having access to the tree of life. A Judean being grafted back into His own tree. Generational curses were mainly through influences of parental guidance, but still only had power over those who were TRIBAL GENERATIONS, not you or I who are connected to no tribe whatsoever. Even if we could track our lineages back to some far off ancestor way back in the hills of Kentucky, we would find that they weren't at Mount Sinai, or went through conversion of circumcision into an Israelite tribe. The whole Generational curse hullabaloo was brought to us through those who don't understand what the Bible means by genealogy. Way too many people roll their eyes when they come to Biblical genealogy and therefore thinks its a non issue. But there was a reason a Israelite's/Judean's genealogy went all the way back Adam. Jesus' genealogy as well, That through the blood of Christ all Israel would be saved. Daniel 9:11 would be overturned by Romans 11:26.
Elder, thank you for taking the time to write this. Very appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:55 AM
diakonos's Avatar
diakonos diakonos is offline
Devilís Den


 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: N.W. Arkansas
Posts: 1,952
Re: Generational Curses?

Is it suicide if you don’t succeed?
__________________

ďDonít blame me, I voted for Kodos.Ē
-Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:56 AM
diakonos's Avatar
diakonos diakonos is offline
Devilís Den


 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: N.W. Arkansas
Posts: 1,952
Re: Generational Curses?


I am surrounded by people that believe in generational curses. It’s rather annoying. Can’t reason with them at all.
__________________

ďDonít blame me, I voted for Kodos.Ē
-Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:38 AM
jediwill83's Avatar
jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
Believe, Obey, Declare


 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Monroe Louisiana
Posts: 3,235
Re: Generational Curses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diakonos View Post

I am surrounded by people that believe in generational curses. Itís rather annoying. Canít reason with them at all.



People tend to double down on tightly held beliefs like that even when presented with chapter and verse and breaking it down in context. Maybe you're planting some seeds that are taking root...maybe one day something will click because of seeds YOU planted...who knows?
__________________
Blessed are the merciful for they SHALL obtain mercy.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:57 AM
votivesoul's Avatar
votivesoul votivesoul is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 4,786
Re: Generational Curses?

I think the question revolves around what it means for God to "visit" the iniquity. I find the meaning fleshed out by the Lord Jesus, who lamented that Jerusalem didn't know the time of their visitation, meaning, if they had been paying attention and realized what hour it was, they would have realized their Redeemer had come to save them from their iniquity.

I think God stating He would visit the iniquity to the 3rd or 4th generation is in line with this.

He will not clear the guilty, but He will graciously visit the guilty and those who've been led into sin and abandoned into it by their forefathers, to give them all a chance to escape from the wages thereof.

Further, since He grants mercy to thousands of generations that love Him, all it takes is for once person in a family line to love God, and their bloodline is promised mercy for the next 7,000 years. Noah loved God, and we all come from him, from one of his three sons, so, how many years and generations have there been since him?

Not enough to abrogate the promise of God to have each and every one of us be visited by Him in mercy.
__________________
For anyone devoted to His fear:

http://votivesoul.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spiritual Warfare: Generational Curses Mercy Qoe Fellowship Hall 0 02-07-2019 11:37 PM
>>When the Preacher Curses<< EA Fellowship Hall 100 02-16-2009 06:49 AM
It's a Generational Cultural Conflict RevBuddy The Tab 27 02-23-2008 07:57 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Lemon
- by Lemon
- by Lemon

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.