Glorified Flesh?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Esaias,
I have given you scripture, please read all my posts in this thread. You ask “give me scripture that says there is no fleshy body of the human form of Jesus”, I’m sorry I can’t.

Thank you. That's enough for me.

If I ask you to give me a scripture that says, the physical, natural body of Jesus is in Heaven?

I never claimed the natural body of Jesus is in heaven. I explicitly showed His resurrection body is a spiritual body, and I explicitly showed it is NOT a natural body. This is another example of shifting the goal posts in this discussion.

You through this body are separating one into two, you use (John 8:35), to prove what Jesus the son (human form) abides forever, where is God in the spirit or should I ask what is Jesus in the spirit realm? You quote (lCorinthians 15) as well as I do, but is that for Jesus, or is that for us. Remember, we desire the resurrection, he IS the resurrection (John 11:25). We need a body, you desire that as a sinner desires the Holy Ghost, why do you need this body, because if there is no body, that means.....

Flesh and Spirit are warring against each other, we understand that, the body of God is not a trophy, it was a vessel that’s all, sorry I don’t have scripture for that, you should have enough understand to believe that, our bodies are not trophies, the spirit within us is a trophy. Our spirits in the heavenly realm will not be our bodies on earth, they’re going to be something totally different, the seed looks NOTHING like the plant.

All this is misdirection and rabbit trails meant to distract from the fact that, as you already admitted, you have no Scripture that teaches what you teach. I reject any doctrine not taught in Scripture. When someone says "I dont have scriptures for that but you should be smart enough to know it is true" I am smart enough to know they are actually saying I should agree with them because they hold more authority than God's Word. Let God be true and let every man be a liar.

It was an interesting discussion, thanks for your contributions.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Nicodemus, you are spitting in the wind with E and MB. They must have the literal body of Jesus up in Heaven so that they can satisfy the dispees.

I guess.

It is spitting in the wind to discuss doctrine with people like yourself who never explain anything, never answer questions, and never even try to make a scriptural case for their bizarre theories.

[Nicodemus1968]

[QUOTE=Esaias;1575116]Thank you. That's enough for me.

With all due respect, you remind me of a person that says “the Bible doesn’t say, not to watch T.V. so it’s ok!”

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Flesh (depending on the context), flesh and bone (very common expression also in the Old Testament), flesh and blood, are all idioms. You can't think of them as telling you something hidden or scientifically literal to the modern reader.

The word natural in 1 Cor 15:44 is also translated as "sensual" in other contexts. It is referring to the current human body with its sensual desires. In the resurrection we won't be struggling with sensuality:
Mat 22:30 KJV - For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

I don't see how Paul is referring to "natural" or "flesh and blood" contrasting with "spiritual" from the scientific standpoint of biology or physics. It can only mean that in our current rationale/scientific-brain-washed minds. That contrast simply talks about the sensuality, dominance of carnal instincts, etc..., we struggle with vs the free from all those things and lead by the spirit bodies we will have. They are both physicals, but one sensual, glutton, savage, greedy, and the other one free from the intrinsic natural desires that make you commit those sins to begin with, e.g. the desire to procreate.
You have to trust God with the details regarding how it will actually be.

I believe your on the right track, with everything you have to “consider the source”. Your correct we will not know all the details until that day we breathe our last breath, the resurrection will be revealed to us. In your study also remember who Paul was writing to in I Corinthians, he was writing to the church and now for our admonition to us. I Corinthians was not written to Jesus Christ, yet, some of our friends want to make our resurrection be that of Jesus Christ. Remember John 11:25 stats he is the resurrection and the life, we’re not the resurrection, but he is. We will have a spiritual body, will it be the body we have now, No! Will God be robed in the body he dwelled in while on Earth, yet spiritualized, NO! The body was a vessel that served its purpose. The reason why they need the body is for a 2nd coming, or 3rd coming however many! All things to them have not been fulfilled there is still lacking. It’s sad, yet, the world goes on.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Nicodemus, you are spitting in the wind with E and MB. They must have the literal body of Jesus up in Heaven so that they can satisfy the dispees.

I guess.

Sad they’ll lay aside truth for their traditions. Waiting for Jesus the son, or God the father to come back since the 1980’s. And yet they’ll proclaim “One God”.

No more from me on this subject.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What is a "physical kingdom"? I asked this before in I think several threads, and never really got an answer from anybody.

I say, there is no such thing as a physical kingdom and a nonphysical kingdom, the distinction is false. EVERY kingdom is a MORAL or "spiritual kingdom" because a kingdom literally only exists in the hearts and minds of people. The only possible exception would be referring to God's rule and sovereignty over physical reality itself (nature, atoms, molecules, gravity, electromagnetic radiation, etc). But that would definitely be a PHYSICAL kingdom, and would mean God clearly DOES have a physical kingdom!

So what does everyone mean when they argue either for or against a "physical" kingdom, either of God or men? I submit nobody using those terms has really thought out the implications and impossibilities of those terms. It's like saying "a physical government", it literally makes no sense, there's no such thing, it's an oxymoron, government or kingdom rules out the term physical right off the bat except in the science of biological taxonomy.

What people think of as physical kingdoms is so varying its pointless it seems to talk about it. I'd say a spritual kingdom is what we have now. But who is to say what the others here are referring to?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Sad they’ll lay aside truth for their traditions. Waiting for Jesus the son, or God the father to come back since the 1980’s. And yet they’ll proclaim “One God”.

No more from me on this subject.

join tjjj with his superiority complex, thinking you're all on higher level than the rest of us alleged oneness people since your oneness is the best.

This is the problem. Not discussing. You speak as though it's not oneness if there is a father/son distinction with flesh, but yet that is the case when jesus was on earth, and you say that is oneness.

If there us that distinction on earth and its oneness, then what in the world does it mean to say that distinction cannot be present in heaven to be oneness?? Its the same thing just different location.

Abd no one wanta the lord to come to back physically. Its just that the word says he will. And Esaias is right.. We present bible and you do not explain it from your view but deal with totally different passsages. We say natural does not mean physical and prove it with greek lexicons, and other verses using the same word, and you ignore it. Never respond to it. And go on With some idea not actually taught in bible that God is not one if a son/father distinction is present in heaven, though it is one of its in earth.

I say the kingdom aspect of a last adam demands a son with sinless flesh and you ignore that, and keep saying things Tha are not taught in the bible. Then you say you're not taking any more and claim we're not oneness.

So, you might as well go and enjoy your superiority without us defilers of your presence. That elitism is the true Phairsaism. Keep telling yourself you're better.

Meanwhile you never responded to points er made, showing your inability, regardless.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

With all due respect, you remind me of a person that says “the Bible doesn’t say, not to watch T.V. so it’s ok!”

And you remind me of every pope, who says "The Bible doesn't say XYZ but you have to believe it because I say so, or else."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What people think of as physical kingdoms is so varying its pointless it seems to talk about it. I'd say a spritual kingdom is what we have now. But who is to say what the others here are referring to?

I have no idea what those other guys are referring to because they won't tell, must be a secret only known to the initiates of their little Honeycomb Hideout club.

I'd say the difference ought to be natural or carnal kingdom vs spiritual kingdom, ie kingdom of men vs kingdom of God. That way the point of comparison is the source of law, nature of government, characteristics of the subjects, and power and method of enforcement of the governor's will. That would keep the discussion within reasonable and Scriptural bounds. In my opinion, anyway.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Sad they’ll lay aside truth for their traditions. Waiting for Jesus the son, or God the father to come back since the 1980’s. And yet they’ll proclaim “One God”.

No more from me on this subject.

For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
(1 Thessalonians 1:8-10)

I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(1 Timothy 6:13-14)

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
(2 Timothy 4:1)

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(Titus 2:11-13)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
(1 Peter 1:3-9)

O sing unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory. The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen. He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God. Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm. With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King. Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.
(Psalms 98:1-9)