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Originally Posted by mfblume
First of all, it is ironic you base the yet future fulfillment upon Luke 21, since futurists believe Luke 21 was AD70 but Matt 24 is not restricted to AD70.
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That’s a gross generalization. Futurists might believe that the desolation of Jerusalem depicted in Luke took place in AD 70…but the events depicted after the “times of the gentiles” in Luke are seen as yet future.
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Anyway, I fail to see the conclusion you are making based upon the above passages. Jesus simply said the Jews would be scattered. What is the point? The duration of the scattering is of no consequence.
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I disagree. Jesus said,
[indent]
Luke 21:24
{21:24} And they shall fall by the edge of
the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until
the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.[/quote]
Notice that Jesus describes the Diaspora of AD 70. Then Christ makes the statement, “…until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled”. This is an important implication. Christ implies that they will be scattered and that Jerusalem will be trodden down UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. That implies that there will come a time when the Jews will no longer be scattered and Jerusalem will no longer be trodden down. When we see the Jews back in control of Jerusalem… the times of the Gentiles will have been fulfilled. We didn’t see the Jews return and the Gentile powers over Jerusalem end in AD 70… therefore this MUST be future from a first century perspective.
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Are you saying that after the scattering shall the sun and moon change appearance? Why is not simply saying that the Jews alive at that time would be scattered, and then the celestial phenommenon would occur, which I explained elsewhere was a figure of speech and apocalyptic language for the downfall of a kingdom.
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Yes and no. The Magi (Persian astrologers) noted astrological phenomena that indicated Christ’s birth. Why wouldn’t Christ’s second coming be any different? This could be depicting solar and lunar eclipses at pivotal moments, pointing to his return. Even Islam believes that a lunar eclipse will take place on the first day of Ramadan and then a solar eclipse will take place half way through Ramadan to herald the coming of the Islamic Al-Mahdi.
Those who are aware of the astrological significance of God’s “clock in the stars” (modern Magis) will most likely see indicators that a great event is about to transpire. Exact timing will most likely remain a mystery.
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Why do you insist this is not until 1948 and onward?
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Because it wasn’t until 1948 that Jewish power was restored over Jerusalem and the times of Gentile domination ended.
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But THIS GENERATION refers to people alive at that time.
Luk 21:28 CEV When all of this starts happening, stand up straight and be brave. You will soon be set free.
Jesus told those people ALL those things would occur in their generation. In their lifetimes.
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Notice Jesus says,
Luke 21:28
{21:28} And when these things begin to come
to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your
redemption draweth nigh.
Notice Jesus said, “when these things BEGIN to come to pass”. Jesus never said they would see the fullness of all that was spoken here. They saw the beginning in AD 70. Notice Christ’s language changes in regards to future events,
[INDENT]
Luke 21:26-28
{21:26} Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking
after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken. {21:27} And then shall
THEY see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and
great glory. {21:28} And when these things begin to come
to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your
redemption draweth nigh.[/QUOTE]
Notice Jesus didn’t say, “And then shall YOU see the Son of Man coming…” Christ is speaking of a future generation. Like two mountain peaks with a valley between them…they look like close events….but are many centuries apart.