Be Perfect Be Pure

[Michael The Disciple]

Chris,

Heres some more to consider.

Galatians 5:19-21

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Are you getting the point? There are several more of these inspired lists of what Jesus considers sin. If one spends time in Gods word he will teach them those things he opposes.

[Michael The Disciple]

Paul warned the Ephesians:5:3-5

3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Lovers of Jesus will want to abide (remain in fellowship) with him. They will spend time just thanking him for the good things he has done.

As to people being lost because they did not know sin is, thats what the Bible is for. If one doesn't take the time in Gods word to know what pleases and displeases the Lord they certainly are putting their soul at risk.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You have an excellent point.

But to really appreciate what we are actually talking about. You would need to at least watch the last video. I know I’m handing out homework with everyones already busy schedule. But one needs to watch the video or videos to understand what is really being commented on.

I'm guessing the real topic here isn't the Biblical doctrine of sanctification?

[Michael The Disciple]

I ask this because it is one thing to say "one must be perfect" and have a bunch of people grunting along in agreement with you while sitting aside a campfire. It's entirely another to define it for practical application that can be readily understood and lived out. This is because everyone grunting in agreement might have different views on what is meant when you say "sinless perfection".

Let us not assume the Spirit baptized lovers of Jesus would "grunt" to do Gods will. If we are abiding in Jesus we will not necessarily be "grunting" as we consider his commandments.

1 John 5:3

3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Chris the Quaker Universalist

Okay, I think I understand you.

In the context of "sinless perfection", how does one know they aren't sinning? For example... I had a ham and swiss sandwich last night. Have I sinned?

Yes.

Occasionally I wear poly-knit clothing, am I in sin?

Poly-knit? What is that? The law forbids linsey-woolsey to the general population, because of its connection to the priesthood.

I don't really keep any "holy days", I might give a nod to their cultural significance, but that's it. I believe that everyday is holy unto the Lord. So, I don't keep the OT sabbaths, feast days, or festivals. I've entertained sabbath keeping, but the Holy Spirit kept pushing me into deeper waters and convicting me that the rest of the sabbath was symbolic type and shadow of our rest in Christ. So, I look at keeping any day as a "holiday" of sorts as merely a cultural thing wherein I can take it or leave it. Would this be "sin"?

Yes. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. One of the "Big Ten".

If I had a brother, and he died without having a child to continue his name, must I marry his wife and raise children up in his name? Because in the OT, it was a rather serious sin not to. God struck Onan dead for refusing to sire a child in his brother's name. If one wishes to really "think" about this... there could be dozens, if not hundreds, of questions like these.

Levirate marriage is an interesting issue, and there has been a 2500 year old debate about the built in torah contradiction concerning it. As for "dozens... hundreds of questions like these" followers of Jesus are "disciples" which means "students". There is no end to study of God's Word, it is our lifelong profession. But, most dont want to study, they want cut and dried simple answers that do not require prayer and thought.

I'm thinking that with a doctrine as exacting as sinless perfection, we need what is and what is not "sin" firmly established. Can you list exactly what is sin for a NT believer?

Sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

I ask this because it is one thing to say "one must be perfect" and have a bunch of people grunting along in agreement with you while sitting aside a campfire. It's entirely another to define it for practical application that can be readily understood and lived out. This is because everyone grunting in agreement might have different views on what is meant when you say "sinless perfection". And without it specified clearly, I imagine your view would see many souls lost due to people simply not knowing what is and is not sin under the New Covenant.

Unless there's Cheerios at the campfire?

[Esaias]

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm guessing the real topic here isn't the Biblical doctrine of sanctification?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Good one!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yes.



Poly-knit? What is that? The law forbids linsey-woolsey to the general population, because of its connection to the priesthood.



Yes. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. One of the "Big Ten".



Levirate marriage is an interesting issue, and there has been a 2500 year old debate about the built in torah contradiction concerning it. As for "dozens... hundreds of questions like these" followers of Jesus are "disciples" which means "students". There is no end to study of God's Word, it is our lifelong profession. But, most dont want to study, they want cut and dried simple answers that do not require prayer and thought.



Sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).



Unless there's Cheerios at the campfire?

Ahhhhhh! Chris the Quaker Universalist!!!!!

Cheerios at the campfire and lots of medical marijuana.

[votivesoul]

Do we really think that what we mean in the 21st century in English by the word perfect is what the Hellenized world of the 1st century meant by the world teleos?

We look in our Bible lexicons, and we see definitions for teleos ranging from complete, whole, mature, lacking the need for anything to be added, and etc.

These are all fine and good, by WHY and HOW does teleos mean these things? That is the question.