What dies at death and wehat is resurrected?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When a person dies, the spirit and soul do not die.

From the link in my signature

(1). “Let us not kill him” (soul–nehphesh). “Let us not take his life” (soul–nehphesh) New American Standard, Genesis 37:21.

(2). "Life (soul–nehphesh) for life (soul–nehphesh).” “Immortal soul for immortal soul?" Exodus 21:23.

(3). "Any dead body (soul–nehphesh)" Leviticus 21:11. Any dead soul? Nehphesh is translated “dead body” thirteen times in the King James Version.

(4). And he that killeth a beast shall make it good beast (soul-nephesh) for beast (soul–nehphesh)” Leviticus 24:17 King James Version, “Life (soul–nehphesh) for life (soul–nehphesh) (soul for soul?)"

(5). “Whosoever is defiled by the dead (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 5:2. Defiled by a dead soul?

(6). “He shall come at no dead body (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 6:6 King James Version. "He shall not go near to a dead person (soul-nehphesh).”

(7). “And he that killeth any man (soul–nehphesh) shall surely be put to death. And he that killeth a beast shall make it good beast (soul–nehphesh) for beast (soul–nehphesh)” (soul for soul?) Leviticus 24:17-18 King James Version. "And if a man takes the life (soul–nehphesh) of any human being." Does anyone believe a person can take the life of an immortal, immaterial, deathless soul?

(8). "Because of a dead person (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 6:11.

(9). "Defiled by the dead body of a man (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 9:6- 7.

(10). "Unclean by reason of a dead body (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 9:10.

(11). "He that toucheth the dead body of any man (soul–nehphesh)” Numbers 19:11. “Whoever touches a human corpse (soul–nehphesh)" (New International Version).

(12). “Whosoever toucheth the dead body (soul–nehphesh) of any man that is dead” Numbers 19:13 King James Version. "Anyone who touches a corpse, the body (soul–nehphesh) of a man who has died.” How could anyone touch the corpse of something that has no substance and cannot die? By today’s definition of soul this says an immaterial deathless something is dead, and this immaterial something is touched by a living mortal man. Why did they not translate this “soul”? If they had it would have destroyed their pagan belief.

(13). "Whosoever has killed any person (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 31:19.

(14). “Which killeth any person (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 35:11.

(15). "Everyone that kills any person (soul–nehphesh) " Numbers 35:15.

(16). "Whoso kills any person (soul–nehphesh)" Numbers 35:30.

(17). “And slay him (soul–nehphesh)” Deuteronomy 19:6 KJV. “And take his life (soul–nehphesh)."

(18). "And strikes him so that he (soul–nehphesh) dies" Deuteronomy 19:11.

(19). "Life (soul–nehphesh) for life (soul–nehphesh), eye for eye, tooth for tooth” Deuteronomy 19:21.

(20). "A man rises against his neighbor and murders him (soul–nehphesh)" Deuteronomy 22:26.

(21). "Cursed be he who takes a bride to slay an innocent person (soul–nehphesh)" Deuteronomy 27:25.

(22). "And deliver our lives (souls–nehpheshs) from death" Joshua 2:13. Not, “Save our immortal, deathless souls from death.”

(23). "Who kills any person (soul–nehphesh)" Joshua 20:9. Not, “Who kills any immortal soul that cannot be killed.”

(24). "That kills any person (soul–nehphesh)" Joshua 20:3.

(25). "Let me (soul–nehphesh) die" Judges 16:30. Not "Let my soul that cannot die, die anyway?"

(26). "And you lose your life (soul–nehphesh), with the lives (souls–nehpheshs) of your household" Judges 18:25.

(27). "If you do not save your life (soul–nehphesh) tonight" 1 Samuel 19:11.

(28). "The death of all the persons (souls–nehpheshs) of your father's house" 1 Samuel 22:22.

(29). "He that seeks my life (soul–nehphesh) seeks your life (soul–nehphesh)" 1 Samuel 22:23.

(30). "He is seeking my life (soul–nehphesh)" 1 Samuel 20:1.

(31). "David saw that Saul was come out to seek his life (soul–nehphesh)" 1 Samuel 23:15.

(32). "Deliver him that smote his brother, that we may kill him for the life (soul–nehphesh) of his brother whom he slew" 2 Samuel 14:7.

(33). "Who today have saved your life (soul–nehphesh) and the lives (souls–nehpheshs of your sons and daughter, the lives (souls–nehpheshs) of your wives, and the lives (souls–nehpheshs) of your concubines" 2 Samuel 19:5.

(34). "Have you asked for the life (soul–nehphesh) of your enemies" 1 Kings 3:11.

(35). "Prolong my life (soul–nehphesh)" Job 6:11. Not “Prolong the life of an immortal, deathless soul?”

(36). "For himself that he might die, and said, It is enough; now, O Lord, take my life (soul–nehphesh)" 1 Kings 19:4.

(37). "A man that dose violence to the blood of any person (soul–nehphesh) shall flee unto the pit; let no man stay him" Proverbs 28:17. A person has blood; if there were an immaterial soul it would have no blood.

(38). "Ammon has sent Ishmael the son of Nethaniah to take your life (soul–nehphesh)...wherefore should he take your life (soul–nehphesh)" Jeremiah 40:14-15.

(39). "By shedding blood and destroying lives (nehpheshs–living beings)" Ezekiel 22:27.

[Esaias]

Also from the link:

PASSAGES IN THE KING JAMES VERSION THAT CLEARLY

SAYS A SOUL CAN DIE, OR THAT A SOUL ALREADY DEAD

The same word (nehphesh) that many times was translated life or person that will die, or is already dead is also translated into an immortal, deathless soul (nehphesh) that many believe is in a person (nehphesh) unto the person’s (nehphesh) death and they say “it” (nehphesh) is not the person (nehphesh); nevertheless, according to the King James Version, that deathless, immortal soul (nehphesh) will die just as the mortal person (nehphesh) that it (nehphesh) is in will die, or that it (nehphesh) is already dead.

(1). “Whatsoever soul (life–nehphesh) it be that doest any work in the same day, the same soul (life–nehphesh) will I destroy" Leviticus 23:30 King James Version. “That person (nehphesh) will I destroy."

(2). "And they smote all the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them; there were none left that breathed" Joshua 11:11.

(3). "He utterly destroyed them and all the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that were therein; he left none remaining" Joshua 10:28.

(4). "And he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that were therein; he left none remaining in it" Joshua 10:30.

(5). " And smote it with he edge of the sword, and all the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that were therein" Joshua 10:32.

(6). "And all the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that were therein he utterly destroyed that day" Joshua 10:35.

(7). "But he utterly destroyed it, and all the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that were therein” Joshua 10:37.

(8). "And he captured it and its king and all its cities, and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that were therein” Joshua 10:39. Can immortal souls be utterly destroyed with the sword?

(9). "That his soul (person–nehphesh) was vexed to death" Judges 16:16. "Annoyed to death" New American Standard Version. We say, "He worried me to dead."

(10). “Yet thou huntest my soul” (life–nehphesh) 1 Samuel 24:11 KJV. "You are lying in wait for my soul (life–nehphesh) to take it" New KJV, American Standard Version.

(11). "To pursue you and to seek your soul (life–nehphesh) 1 Samuel 25:29. Sometimes nehphesh was translated “seek your soul,” and sometimes the same word was translated “seek your life.” See 12-21 below. Did they think the Hebrew word nehphesh (1) is a mortal person that both can and will die, (2) or an immortal soul that cannot die?

1. “Which sought your life” (nehphesh) 2 Samuel 4:8.

2. “Seeking my life” (nehphesh) 2 Samuel 16:11.

3. “Take away my life” (nehphesh) 1. Kings 19:10.

4. “They seek my life, (nehphesh) to take it away” 1 Kings19:14.

5. “Seek after my soul” (nehphesh) Psalm 35:4.

6. “Seek after my life” (nehphesh) Psalm 38:12.

7. “Seek after my soul” (nehphesh) Psalm 40:14.

8. “Let all those that seek thee” (nehphesh) Psalm 40:16.

9. “To slay thee” (nehphesh) Jeremiah 40:14.

(12). "The blood of the souls (persons–nehpheshs) of the innocent poor" Jeremiah 2:34. Dose an immaterial, invisible soul that is in a person have no substance, but it has blood!

(13). "To slay the souls (persons–nehpheshs) that should not die and to save the souls (persons–nehpheshs) alive that should not live" Ezekiel 13:19. If a soul were something that is immortal and cannot die, this passage is completely nonsense.

(14). “He spared not their soul (nehphesh–life) from death” (Psalms 78:50).

(15). "Like a roaring lion ravening the prey, they have devoured souls (nehpheshs–living beings)" Ezekiel 22:25.

(16) “The soul (nehphesh–life) of every living thing” King James Version (Job 12:10). “In whose hand is the life (nehphesh) of every living thing."

(17). "He did not spare their soul (nehphesh–living being) from death, but gave over their life to the plague, and smote all the firstborn in Egypt" (Psalm 78:50).

(18). "The soul (person–nehphesh) who sins will die" Ezekiel 18:4.

(19). Ezekiel 18:20

1. "The SOUL (person–nehphesh) that sins, IT SHALL DIE" King James Version.

2. "The PERSON (nehphesh) who sins SHALL DIE" New Revised Standard Version.

3. "The PERSON (nehphesh) who sins WILL DIE" New American Standard Version, and New Revised English Bible.

4. “It is the PERSON (nehphesh) who sins that WILL DIE” The Revised English Bible.

5. "The PERSON (nehphesh) who sins is the one who WILL DIE" New Century Version, Holman, and Christian Standard Bible.

6. “It is for a MAN’S (nehphesh) own sins that he WILL DIE” The Living Bible.

7. “The PERSON (nehphesh) who sins will be the one who DIES” New Living Translation.

8. “Only THOSE (persons–nehphesh) who sin will be PUT TO DEATH” Contemporary English Version.

9. “Only THE ONE (person–nehphesh) who sins SHALL DIE” The New American Bible, and Today's New International Version.

10. “The PERSON (nehphesh) who sins WILL DIE” God Word Translation.

11. “PEOPLE (nehphesh) WILL DIE because of their own sins” New International Reader's Version.

Ezekiel 18:20 is a person dying (being put to death) for a sin under the Old Testament Law, but by those who believe there is a soul that will not die when the person it was in dies this passage is almost always changed to be referring to something that cannot die. When this is misapply as it often is, to some immaterial something that is believed to be in a person, this is an undeniable statement that the immortal something that they say cannot die will die, that if there were a soul it would not have everlasting life with torment. This is definitely not what they wanted, but what they made in their attempt to make there be a soul that is immortal. If "soul" means "an immortal something that cannot die," then James said, "Shall save from death an immortal something that cannot die" James 5:20. This theology makes nonsense of the Bible.

The divine sentence, "The soul that sins, it shall die" has been revised to say, "The soul that sins, it shall live eternally in torment." Not only must "die" be changed to "eternal life" but after making the change then torment, which is not in Ezekiel 18:20 must be added to it; changed to “a soul that sins, it shall live forever being eternally torment by God.” To make it teach what many want it to teach, first, God's word must be changed, and then added to.

“Shall die” in Ezekiel 18:4 is in contrast to “shall surely live” in Ezekiel 18:9. It is life or death of a living person under the Law that is being spoken of, not two kinds of life after death; if death is only a separation of soul and body as many teach, what is the death of a soul; how can a soul that is alive but separated from God be dead?

(20). IN OVER 320, over one-third of the about 870 times that nehphesh, the Hebrew word that is translated or mistranslated soul, it is used of souls,

1. Of souls (nehphesh) that are already dead.

2. Of souls (nehphesh) that can die, and can be killed.

3. Of souls (nehphesh) that can be buried.

4. Of souls (nehphesh) that can be sought to be killed.

5. Of souls (nehphesh) that can be murdered.

6. Of souls (nehphesh) that can be delivered from death.

7. Of souls (nehphesh) that can be smote (killed).

8. Of souls (nehphesh) that can be affected.

9. Of souls (nehphesh) that can be cut off.

In most of these passages the translators of the King James and other translations have hidden from the readers that the very thing they believe to be immortal and cannot die, that it can and does die. By picking when they translated nehphesh into soul and picking when to translate "nehphesh" into "life," "person" and many other words. Can such hiding have been anything more then a deliberate deceiving because they wanted to teach Plato’s Greek philosophy of a deathless souls in place of the resurrection of dead persons? But even in the King James Version there are many passages which says that souls (nehpheshs) can and do die, or that souls are already dead.

Nehphesh (often mistranslated into the pagan Greek deathless, no substance “soul”) is a physical person or animal, whether they are living or dead.

SOULS CAN BE KILLED BY OTHERS

1. "We feared greatly for our soul (nehphesh–life, living being) because of you” (Joshua 9:24). They feared for their life, not for a deathless being that was in them.

2. "All the men who were seeking your soul (nehphesh–life) are dead” (Exodus 4:19).

3. “Saul had come out to seek his life (nehphesh–life, living being) while David was in the wilderness” (1 Samuel 23:15).

4. They had to flee to save their souls (nehpheshs–lives, living beings) (2 King 7:7), their lives (nehphesh–living being) would be utterly destroyed "with the edge of the sword" or other weapons (Joshua 10:27; 10:30; 10:32; 10:35, 10:37; 10:39).

5. “And deliver our lives (nehpheshs–living beings) from death” (Joshua 2:13).

SOULS CAN DIE FOR LACK OF FOOD

Not only could souls (nehpheshs–living beings) be killed by their enemies, but souls (nehpheshs–living beings) could also die for lack of food (Lamentations 1:11; Numbers 11:6).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

there is no point in having a disembodied spirit roaming around waiting to be reunited with a resurrected body. That makes the person immortal, the bible says God only is immortal at this point.



when saints are resurrected to life, they will put on immortality

I clearly see a purpose. Because when we die in our bodies expire, Paul said that we depart from our body to be with the Lord. We Still exist because we're all alive to the Lord, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and God's Not God of the dead, but the living. And the purposes that we have to get our Immortal bodies to rule on this Earth again. So, if we depart from our body, we have to be somewhere. And it's a waiting the body so that we can live on this Earth. Heaven's only temporary for us not.

By the way, everybody, existing is not the same thing as living. If people are in hell in the second death, that doesn't mean they're not existing. And it doesn't mean they're alive either. Living and existing are not the same thing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

there is no point in having a disembodied spirit roaming around waiting to be reunited with a resurrected body. That makes the person immortal, the bible says God only is immortal at this point.



when saints are resurrected to life, they will put on immortality

I clearly see a purpose. Because when we die and our bodies expire, Paul said that we depart from our body to be with the Lord. We Still exist because we're all alive to the Lord, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and God's Not God of the dead, but the living. And the purposes that we have to get our Immortal bodies to rule on this Earth again. So, if we depart from our body, we have to be somewhere. And it's a waiting the body so that we can live on this Earth. Heaven's only temporary for us not.

By the way, everybody, existing is not the same thing as living. If people are in hell in the second death, that doesn't mean they're not existing. And it doesn't mean they're alive either. Living and existing are not the same thing.

[JamesGlen]

Esaias, how do u view Mark 12:26-27, in regard to explaining what part(& how) of those mentioned, are currently living?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I clearly see a purpose. Because when we die and our bodies expire, Paul said that we depart from our body to be with the Lord. We Still exist because we're all alive to the Lord, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and God's Not God of the dead, but the living. And the purposes that we have to get our Immortal bodies to rule on this Earth again. So, if we depart from our body, we have to be somewhere. And it's a waiting the body so that we can live on this Earth. Heaven's only temporary for us not.

By the way, everybody, existing is not the same thing as living. If people are in hell in the second death, that doesn't mean they're not existing. And it doesn't mean they're alive either. Living and existing are not the same thing.

I believe the immortal soul doctrine is a neo platonic construct read into scripture that can not be found in the original texts.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I believe the immortal soul doctrine is a neo platonic construct read into scripture that can not be found in the original texts.

Everlasting life starts not at death but at the resurrection, Daniel 12:2

https://www.jba.gr/The-origins-of-th...f-the-soul.htm

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I believe the immortal soul doctrine is a neo platonic construct read into scripture that can not be found in the original texts.

I'm just saying that leaving the body to be with the Lord can only be in soul and spirit going to heaven.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Everlasting life starts not at death but at the resurrection, Daniel 12:2

https://www.jba.gr/The-origins-of-th...f-the-soul.htm

I mentioned earlier than life is not necessarily existence.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I'm just saying that leaving the body to be with the Lord can only be in soul and spirit going to heaven.

A living soul is a living being, with the breath of life that comes from God. I see lt as mind/body and breath.