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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1211  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:44 PM
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good samaritan good samaritan is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Amen. The love of money is the root of all evil. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
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  #1212  
Old 03-09-2017, 07:24 AM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

I found this to be very informative:
Secular History of Tithing
http://tithing-russkelly.com/id15.html
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  #1213  
Old 03-09-2017, 07:29 AM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

I also found this to be informative:
THE STOREHOUSE TITHING ERROR
http://tithing-russkelly.com/id184.html
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  #1214  
Old 03-13-2017, 06:34 PM
AllScripture AllScripture is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Very convincing arguments made by Russ Kelly - hard to get around in my opinion! Maybe someone on this forum can reply?
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  #1215  
Old 03-13-2017, 06:45 PM
w4yne w4yne is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by gloryseeker View Post
It amazes me how many Christians try to marginalize the tithe. I have even seen post where people have posed the question, “Can you show me that tithing is a command of God.” Why yes, I could probably give dozens.

In this post I will state why I believe that the tithe is a command of God, I would be interested in a scriptural basis of why the tithe is an optional concept.

First of all the most commonly used scriptures on tithes:

Mal 3:7-8
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Through the Prophet Malachi God tells His people to return to Him and He would return to them. Then the question is posed, “How do we return to you?” The answer, “In tithes and offerings.” It would be my guess that they didn't return to Him since they entered into the dark years.

How can we rob God in tithes? Either we knock off the usher as he carries the plate to the back room and steal all the tithes or we keep what God has declared as His. If the latter is true then the tithe does not become the tithe when it is given, but becomes the tithe when you increase.

Throughout the Old Testament we see God saying that the tithe is holy, it is His, and that we are not to touch it. The tithe is a tenth. Therefore, the reality is .90 cents is yours out of $1.00. It is not your dollar that you are going to give God a dime. The dime is His when you get the dollar. You steal it by not returning to Him what is His.

I have also heard people say that they tithe 5% and I have heard people say that they tithe 20%. Both are incorrect because a tithe is a tenth. Anything over a tenth is an offering and anything less than a tenth, well I guess is an offering also.

In the NT Hebrews 7 deals with the tithe:

Heb 7:1-5
1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace,"
3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils.
5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; (NKJ)

Who receive the priesthood in the NT? What is termed the five-hold. They have a command to receive the tithes from the people according to the law.

Why do people try to say tithing is OT when prayer, fasting, and worship were all OT activities also?

Why do people try to say that tithing was under the law when it precedes the law going back to Cain, Able, Abraham and Isaac?

Why do people marginalize Jesus saying, “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

Why do people try to make Hebrews 7 some kind of OT rehashing, when in fact the only place the tithe was fully explained was during the time of the giving of the law and it has never changed? The tithe is received according to the law, not under the law.

I am sure any here that would disagree with me would be different than my experiences, but I have only seen people who are tight with money or who want to spend money on themselves try and make an argument that tithe is not a command.

I wish it were possible to know the percentage of gross income given in 2007 by any who would try and say the tithe is not a command, and it would be interesting to also know how much they were in debt (people who fight giving principles are typically heavy in debt). I know that would be impossible, but it would be very interesting.
If you become a disciple of Christ then you will not have to
concern yourself with tithing. Because you will have obeyed
the commandment of having nothing but your own cross.

Luke 14:33
So likewise,
whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath,
he cannot be my disciple.
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  #1216  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:34 PM
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CalledOut238 CalledOut238 is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

When looking at the scripture that has aggrandize preachers there is a certain irony. Starting in Malachi chapter two we find our Father speaking to the Levitical priesthood.

Malachi 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

And why were the priests rebuked? For not paying their tithes; from congregational tithes, to ensure the poor had food in the storehouse.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But (ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee)? In tithes and offerings.

When we look back to Numbers we find the Levites were command to pay their tithes.

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, (then ye shall offer) up an heave offering of it for the LORD, (even a tenth part of the tithe)

You have to admit the brevity of this scripture being used to acquire tithes from congregation is rich.

The Mosaic covenant had moral, ceremonial and civic laws. These were to be administrated by the Levitical priesthood in a Theocratic government. Tithes were the same as our taxes are in our current government system.

I give to a ministry; not out of fear of a curse, but out of love for the gospel.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, (may abound to every good work.)

If a child of God gives a percentage of their income they will learn this principle. You cannot out give our Heavenly Father. It means more to me now; giving offerings knowing that I am not commanded, then when I gave out of obligation to a command.

Selah
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  #1217  
Old 03-18-2017, 05:28 AM
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Amanah Amanah is online now
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledOut238 View Post
When looking at the scripture that has aggrandize preachers there is a certain irony. Starting in Malachi chapter two we find our Father speaking to the Levitical priesthood.

Malachi 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

And why were the priests rebuked? For not paying their tithes; from congregational tithes, to ensure the poor had food in the storehouse.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But (ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee)? In tithes and offerings.

When we look back to Numbers we find the Levites were command to pay their tithes.

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, (then ye shall offer) up an heave offering of it for the LORD, (even a tenth part of the tithe)

You have to admit the brevity of this scripture being used to acquire tithes from congregation is rich.

The Mosaic covenant had moral, ceremonial and civic laws. These were to be administrated by the Levitical priesthood in a Theocratic government. Tithes were the same as our taxes are in our current government system.

I give to a ministry; not out of fear of a curse, but out of love for the gospel.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, (may abound to every good work.)

If a child of God gives a percentage of their income they will learn this principle. You cannot out give our Heavenly Father. It means more to me now; giving offerings knowing that I am not commanded, then when I gave out of obligation to a command.

Selah
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  #1218  
Old 03-24-2017, 12:07 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Only food items were tithed under the law. Also, not everyone was required to tithe.
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Go here on tithing----->

http://www.nomoretithing.org/nmt_links.htm

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

If it is God's will for your illness then why are you seeking medical attention to get rid of it?
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  #1219  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:56 AM
Lanny60 Lanny60 is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

It has been very interesting to read through all of your thoughts and perceptions on tithing.

We tithed for 30 years because we were told it was Biblical. When we finally had the thought to study it out ourselves, we saw that it is not what we were taught it was and we stopped tithing. We continue to give offerings because God lays those on our hearts and the Bible makes it clear that it is good to do.

I've heard many people say that the ones who do not tithe are the ones who are tight with their money. My observation has differed. What we have seen is the people who tithe are striving to make ends meet, being faithful to God, are often living check to check, never really able to get ahead.

The interesting and troubling thing is that those who are on the other side of the coin, those recieving the tithing and offerings are often showing evidence of excessive resources. This is not always true, but it is true from where we come from.

Something else that has come to concern me is that pastors often quip little phrases like, "You can't out give God" and "Do you want net blessings or gross blessings?" amoung many others. There is rarely Scripture given and when it is, it is out of the Old Testament or from the New where it refers to the past, under the law.

Have any of you ever read Scripture where the Apostles exhorted the people to pay tithes? I've not seen it.

Another part of the tithe that is misrepresented is that we tithe on our income. In the OT when tithings was done, it was done on the increase. There is a difference.

Just my thoughts. Don't bash me too hard. I'm new here and I might be scared off. lol!!
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  #1220  
Old 08-10-2017, 12:40 PM
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jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny60 View Post
It has been very interesting to read through all of your thoughts and perceptions on tithing.

We tithed for 30 years because we were told it was Biblical. When we finally had the thought to study it out ourselves, we saw that it is not what we were taught it was and we stopped tithing. We continue to give offerings because God lays those on our hearts and the Bible makes it clear that it is good to do.

I've heard many people say that the ones who do not tithe are the ones who are tight with their money. My observation has differed. What we have seen is the people who tithe are striving to make ends meet, being faithful to God, are often living check to check, never really able to get ahead.

The interesting and troubling thing is that those who are on the other side of the coin, those recieving the tithing and offerings are often showing evidence of excessive resources. This is not always true, but it is true from where we come from.

Something else that has come to concern me is that pastors often quip little phrases like, "You can't out give God" and "Do you want net blessings or gross blessings?" amoung many others. There is rarely Scripture given and when it is, it is out of the Old Testament or from the New where it refers to the past, under the law.

Have any of you ever read Scripture where the Apostles exhorted the people to pay tithes? I've not seen it.

Another part of the tithe that is misrepresented is that we tithe on our income. In the OT when tithings was done, it was done on the increase. There is a difference.

Just my thoughts. Don't bash me too hard. I'm new here and I might be scared off. lol!!

its my view that of something is important enough to reference a curse when demanding it be followed in New Testament times, it should be followed exactly how it was in the period of time the curse applied.

Dont threaten me with a curse for not following a Old Testament tax and welfare program when you have taken the liberty of modifying how it was collected, what was collected, how much was collected and why it was collected.

Yes I believe in giving and I give like crazy, freely out of the kindness of my own heart.


Stingy? I started a company just so that we COULD give and a heck of alot more than 10%

Of course now you will have people say, "But muh established principles before the law was written!"

Abraham tithed on things that was NOT his increase as a battle tax, one of the other patriarchs made a conditional vow to tithe IF God blessed him...

I think a bigger effort needs to be made teaching and encouraging financial responsibility and entrepreneurship in churches NOT "the more you give the more you will be blessed." just doesnt happen like that,sorry.

People will disagree and say,"Well you didnt give enough" or "You're not living right" all kinds of excuses.

Walking in your blessing takes effort other than the effort it takes to pull out your wallet or write a check.
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