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  #71  
Old 05-31-2008, 04:03 PM
Joelel Joelel is offline
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
Oh good Lord...... we don't believe in a literal catching away??? Hold on brother,, tons of quotes coming your way to prove you wrong once again on these issues......

I see you said we,you must be one of them ?
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  #72  
Old 05-31-2008, 04:12 PM
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
I absolutely believe the first line..... just as God moved past the Wesley Age, the Lutheran Age. the Baptist Age he doesnt stop at the Pentecostal Age... Laodocia is over and we are now in the Bride Age.. when God is calling his Bride to the Word.. out of every denomination of man... he is calling her out of Pentecost... into THE WORD

I will always tell you when you DO STRIKE on what we believe..... but to say we dont believe in the literal catching away is ludicrous
Sorry,the church is not the bride yet and everyone saved will not be the bride.The marrage has not taken place yet,we are making ourselves ready now.Rev.19 has not took place yet.

Rev.19
[7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
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  #73  
Old 05-31-2008, 04:17 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branahm a ...

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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
No, the guidelines of 1 Corinthians 14 would be applicable and would have to be placed alongside the exhortation of Ephesians 5:18-21. There should be a "moderate" blending of the two.

My personal opinion is that there can indeed be a time of worship, aisle running, and dancing and there can be limited prophecies and messages in tongues and interpretation. There can also be times of deep silence as people hear from and speak to God privately and quietly. But, there should also be a time when everyone shuts up and listens to the Word of the Lord taught, preached, or exhorted. Times when the Spirit "moves" in such a way that there is no preaching should be the rare exception.
ORDER
taxis
tax'-is
From G5021; regular arrangement, that is, (in time) fixed succession (of rank or character), official dignity: - order.

Now let's look at the context.

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
1Co 14:25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
1Co 14:26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
1Co 14:30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,
1Co 14:32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

Not one thing here speaks of HOW we worship or display joy or any sort of expression. Paul is STRICTLY speaking of the use of gifts in order rather than doing it all at once, as well as singing songs etc etc...he is talking about each one getting a chance IN ORDER or one at a time and as for women being silent this is not talking about teaching...when teaching is going on she is to learn in silence. It was shameful then for women in that part of the world to speak out...previously women were not even allowed to learn in meetings like that. Not in synagogues, but now they are allowed to learn along side men, but Paul required they do so in silence rather than speaking out. Why the part about asking their husbands? It has been suggested the problem was in church the women sat on one side and the men on the other and the women were asking their husbands questions which is disruptive so they were to wait until they got home and asked their husbands
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #74  
Old 05-31-2008, 07:34 PM
Dr. Vaughn
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

PRAX.. if you will notice.. I hardly respond to your writings.. it never leads to any conclusions and you make it waaay too persona... but I could not help myself on a statement you made.. it demandsa response

You cunningly indicated that IN THOSE TIMES women were not allowed to teach..... and be in authority over man.... I wish to make a slight correction, respectfully....

IT WAS NOT SO FROM THE BEGINNING, had nothing to do with the times.....
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  #75  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:24 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
PRAX.. if you will notice.. I hardly respond to your writings.. it never leads to any conclusions and you make it waaay too persona... but I could not help myself on a statement you made.. it demandsa response

You cunningly indicated that IN THOSE TIMES women were not allowed to teach..... and be in authority over man.... I wish to make a slight correction, respectfully....

IT WAS NOT SO FROM THE BEGINNING, had nothing to do with the times.....
You never reply regardless of if I make it personal or not....BTW you made it personal a LONG time ago when you came in calling us all hypocrites and other things. Regardless though I will continue to refute your arguments if not for you to see for the benefit of the others that might be mislead by your posts.

Second, talk about cunning and personal...you are not being personal here? Uh I did not say in those times they were not allowed to TEACH. I said they were NOT allowed to LEARN. In pre christian times they did not enjoy the same privilage as men in learning in synagogues.

I never said one thing about them teaching or having authority.

This one of many times you have erroneously....maybe cunningly (that was your word you used for me....so much for your claims to being respectful....you show otherwise) put words in my mouth.

I deal with you how you deal with me and the others here. If you don't like it, change your tune.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #76  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:26 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branahm a ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
ORDER
taxis
tax'-is
From G5021; regular arrangement, that is, (in time) fixed succession (of rank or character), official dignity: - order.

Now let's look at the context.

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
1Co 14:25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
1Co 14:26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
1Co 14:30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,
1Co 14:32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

Not one thing here speaks of HOW we worship or display joy or any sort of expression. Paul is STRICTLY speaking of the use of gifts in order rather than doing it all at once, as well as singing songs etc etc...he is talking about each one getting a chance IN ORDER or one at a time and as for women being silent this is not talking about teaching...when teaching is going on she is to learn in silence. It was shameful then for women in that part of the world to speak out...previously women were not even allowed to learn in meetings like that. Not in synagogues, but now they are allowed to learn along side men, but Paul required they do so in silence rather than speaking out. Why the part about asking their husbands? It has been suggested the problem was in church the women sat on one side and the men on the other and the women were asking their husbands questions which is disruptive so they were to wait until they got home and asked their husbands
Bump

I don't think the Dr can refute this. It is clear from the context that he is misusing or abusing the text and the word order to promote his own personal feelings of how a church meeting should ONLY be like.

he keeps saying order order as if that proves something alone, but shown in context it does NOT support his argument
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #77  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:28 PM
Dr. Vaughn
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

PRAX

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

Sound like any Pentecostal meetings you been in lately?
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  #78  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:48 PM
Joelel Joelel is offline
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
PRAX

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

Sound like any Pentecostal meetings you been in lately?
Here in Cor. When Paul was talking about the gift of tongues it is very clear he was talking about two kind of tongues because he said, 13:1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal

(Tongues of angels is when you pray.)1Cor.14[1] Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.[2] For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries'

(Even when a person prays in tongues and others are around he should pray to interpret.)1 Cor14:[13] Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.[14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.[15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also

(When praying)[16] Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?[17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified

(If any man speaks in a tongue he is only to speak in two or three sentence and if no one understands to interpret he should keep it down to a whisper and talk to God) 1 Cor.14:[27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.[28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
So we find that the Holy Ghost is going to speak out loud though people in the church assemblies and no one will understand.Then that person if no interpretation is given is to keep the tongue talking down to a whisper and speak to God.

We speak in tongues of angels and men and groanings and stammering lips.Isa.28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.12: To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear

We don't make intercession in the Spirit. The Spirit makes intercession for us.Rom.8[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered
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  #79  
Old 05-31-2008, 10:05 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
PRAX

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

Sound like any Pentecostal meetings you been in lately?
You refused to engage me in this issue Dr. I tried to bring it up but you brushed me off.

You raised this issue before and when I tried to replie you ignored my post. This is a consistant pattern with you.

I repeat...we all Pentecostals agree that a message in tongues meant for the church to be edified, should not be all done at the same time and should only be done one by one to the most of three speakers.

That is not the problem and you know it. The problem is whether or not those tongues are the same kinds of tongues meant to be interpreted.

Having said that, that does not address what I just said in my previous post. This is just more red herring and obfuscation.

You TRIED to use this stuff about order to disprove NOT tongues but singing, praising, worshipping, jumping and other expressions of joy and praise and simply put the word ORDER in that verse has NOTHING to do with that. If you want to argue "order" in reference to the gifts of the Spirit being used then we are on the same page. But you tried to take the purpose of What Paul is talking about beyond that.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 05-31-2008, 10:26 PM
Dr. Vaughn
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Re: I'm Confused Dr. V - Wasn't Branham a ...

I love how you guys come up with these "oh thats a different kind of tongues" who is the authority on what type of tongues he is talking about here.... what solid ground do you stand on to say WITHOUT A DOUBT he is not talking about "praying in tongues"
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