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Old 08-27-2008, 01:25 PM
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New Testament writer had long hair

From Eusebius, Church History Book 2
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250102.htm

3. The manner of James' death has been already indicated by the above-quoted words of Clement, who records that he was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple, and was beaten to death with a club. But Hegesippus, who lived immediately after the apostles, gives the most accurate account in the fifth book of his Memoirs. He writes as follows:

4. James, the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church in conjunction with the apostles. He has been called the Just by all from the time of our Saviour to the present day; for there were many that bore the name of James.

5. He was holy from his mother's womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh. No razor came upon his head; he did not anoint himself with oil, and he did not use the bath.

6. He alone was permitted to enter into the holy place; for he wore not woolen but linen garments. And he was in the habit of entering alone into the temple, and was frequently found upon his knees begging forgiveness for the people, so that his knees became hard like those of a camel, in consequence of his constantly bending them in his worship of God, and asking forgiveness for the people.

7. Because of his exceeding great justice he was called the Just, and Oblias, which signifies in Greek, 'Bulwark of the people' and 'Justice,' in accordance with what the prophets declare concerning him.

8. Now some of the seven sects, which existed among the people and which have been mentioned by me in the Memoirs, asked him, 'What is the gate of Jesus?' and he replied that he was the Saviour.

9. On account of these words some believed that Jesus is the Christ. But the sects mentioned above did not believe either in a resurrection or in one's coming to give to every man according to his works. But as many as believed did so on account of James.

10. Therefore when many even of the rulers believed, there was a commotion among the Jews and Scribes and Pharisees, who said that there was danger that the whole people would be looking for Jesus as the Christ. Coming therefore in a body to James they said, 'We entreat you, restrain the people; for they are gone astray in regard to Jesus, as if he were the Christ. We entreat you to persuade all that have come to the feast of the Passover concerning Jesus; for we all have confidence in you. For we bear you witness, as do all the people, that you are just, and do not respect persons. Matthew 22:16

11. Therefore, persuade the multitude not to be led astray concerning Jesus. For the whole people, and all of us also, have confidence in you. Stand therefore upon the pinnacle of the temple, that from that high position you may be clearly seen, and that your words may be readily heard by all the people. For all the tribes, with the Gentiles also, are come together on account of the Passover.'

12. The aforesaid Scribes and Pharisees therefore placed James upon the pinnacle of the temple, and cried out to him and said: 'You just one, in whom we ought all to have confidence, forasmuch as the people are led astray after Jesus, the crucified one, declare to us, what is the gate of Jesus.'

13. And he answered with a loud voice, 'Why do you ask me concerning Jesus, the Son of Man? He himself sits in heaven at the right hand of the great Power, and is about to come upon the clouds of heaven.'

14. And when many were fully convinced and gloried in the testimony of James, and said, 'Hosanna to the Son of David,' these same Scribes and Pharisees said again to one another, 'We have done badly in supplying such testimony to Jesus. But let us go up and throw him down, in order that they may be afraid to believe him.'

15. And they cried out, saying, 'Oh! oh! the just man is also in error.' And they fulfilled the Scripture written in Isaiah, 'Let us take away the just man, because he is troublesome to us: therefore they shall eat the fruit of their doings.'

16. So they went up and threw down the just man, and said to each other, 'Let us stone James the Just.' And they began to stone him, for he was not killed by the fall; but he turned and knelt down and said, 'I entreat you, Lord God our Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.' Luke 23:34

17. And while they were thus stoning him one of the priests of the sons of Rechab, the son of the Rechabites, who are mentioned by Jeremiah the prophet, cried out, saying, 'Stop. What are you doing? The just one prays for you.'

18. And one of them, who was a fuller, took the club with which he beat out clothes and struck the just man on the head. And thus he suffered martyrdom. And they buried him on the spot, by the temple, and his monument still remains by the temple. He became a true witness, both to Jews and Greeks, that Jesus is the Christ. And immediately Vespasian besieged them.

19. These things are related at length by Hegesippus, who is in agreement with Clement. James was so admirable a man and so celebrated among all for his justice, that the more sensible even of the Jews were of the opinion that this was the cause of the siege of Jerusalem, which happened to them immediately after his martyrdom for no other reason than their daring act against him.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:26 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

Someone please explain passage marker #5. It was New Testament, so was a writer of one of the NT books a rebellious, long haired hippy since he had long hair and the Nazarite vow was not longer in effect (for those who see the law being 100% abolished under grace)? I dare you to take a crack at it and prove this source being off.

I'd love to see how my brothers who like the "old paths" think about Christianity circa 70 AD and before.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:29 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

New Testament writer was a WOMAN!!!
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:31 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair



well.. we do know there was a female apostle mentioned in scripture.. but thats not a fun one to cover for the "no women preachers" crowd...

http://www.godswordtowomen.org/rissjunia.htm

Romans 16:7 - Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:35 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

I imagine it will be silence like usual from the cons when presented something that flips the arguement on them. it will get emotional, they will accuse and say its twisting the wording, or that its somehow a exception of the unbendable rules they make for the sheeple.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:37 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

I get my doctrine from the Word, not some uninspired historian, Brother.

Paul said it was a shame. That's good enough for me.

Nothing to debate.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:42 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

For some reason, probably in the midst of his work at Corinth, Paul took on himself the Nazarite vow. This could only be terminated by his going up to Jerusalem to offer up the hair which till then was to be left uncut. But it seems to have been allowable for persons at a distance to cut the hair, which was to be brought up to Jerusalem, where the ceremony was completed. This Paul did at Cenchrea just before setting out on his voyage into Syria (Acts 18:18).

On another occasion (Acts 21:23-26), at the feast of Pentecost, Paul took on himself again the Nazarite vow.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:43 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

ok then

the question then stands should be cut the book of James out of the cannon because he was a shameful man (feel free to enjoy that line of logic)? this is a pretty accurate source, and the historian wouldn't have included anything negative about a apostle if it was considered to be shameful... in fact he wrote many books against gnostics and various heretics to defend the faith pre-council of nicea.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:43 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

As to the duration of a Nazarite's vow, every one was left at liberty to fix his own time. There is mention made in Scripture of only three who were Nazarites for life: Samson, Samuel, and John the Baptist (Judg. 13:4,5; 1 Sam. 1:11; Luke 1:15).
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:44 PM
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Re: New Testament writer had long hair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
For some reason, probably in the midst of his work at Corinth, Paul took on himself the Nazarite vow. This could only be terminated by his going up to Jerusalem to offer up the hair which till then was to be left uncut. But it seems to have been allowable for persons at a distance to cut the hair, which was to be brought up to Jerusalem, where the ceremony was completed. This Paul did at Cenchrea just before setting out on his voyage into Syria (Acts 18:18).

On another occasion (Acts 21:23-26), at the feast of Pentecost, Paul took on himself again the Nazarite vow.
thats a good line of debate, i've actually thought about that myself. so was the nazarite vow over when the temple was destroyed by Titus in 70 AD and the law was negated in that way... or is it still ok to this day? and was long hair a Corinthian/eastern issue because of its assocation with male prositutes in Corinth... or is it a universal church issue? And is the Nazarite vow the only exception for it? food for thought.
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