Cheerful giver.

[JamesGlen]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

What Trinitarian church do you have a real Apostolic Church mixed up with?

If your Pastor gets paid a salary he's an employee not a pastor.

Please post scripture of how a pastor is to be paid.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

I'll leave this here.
God blesses the sower. And God also said not paying tithe was robbery against God. Now if your not tithing anything else then well your robbing God. Point blank period.

And my Bible says thieves can't enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. How much more those who are stealing from God?

I pay tithes Because I give them unto the Lord and He blesses me. You have come too late to tell me it's not important. I don't do it cuz I have to, I do it cuz I want to. And God always blesses those who give from the heart. I give tithes cuz I include God in every venture I pursue, and you know what? He always makes things come together In that venture when I include Him. I may give them to ministry but what they do with them is on them. That's their responsibility with God and they are held accountable for that. I gave it unto the Lord.

Now I'm not saying give your money to people who are about money. You know a wolf and someone with a car salesman spirit at least you should. If they pass the plate around multiple times don't trust them with nothing. Find you someone who could care less about your money and will still tell you the truth. I'm not saying don't use discretion but don't miss out on the blessing. I believe paying tithes and offerings is the true first step of obedience. If a person can't be trusted in their pocket book they can't be trusted anywhere else either! I judge ministry starting at this principle. How someone is about money will tell you all about who and how they really are!

WHO was robbing God? It wasn’t Patrick or Patty Pentecost.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

What Trinitarian church do you have a real Apostolic Church mixed up with?

If your Pastor gets paid a salary he's an employee not a pastor.

What is a pastor that announces, “Don’t call me your pastor if you don’t pay tithes! Don’t say that this is your church!”

I get it. He needs to eat. Church bills need to get paid. I don’t believe in attending and NOT giving.

But, where is the line that divides pastor(ing) from hireling?

I HAD a pastor that told us that his family is not going to suffer. He let us know that PLENTY of churches would LOVE to have him as their pastor. How quick one goes from “God called me here” to pay to pray.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

I'll leave this here.
God blesses the sower. And God also said not paying tithe was robbery against God. Now if your not tithing anything else then well your robbing God. Point blank period.

And my Bible says thieves can't enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. How much more those who are stealing from God?

I pay tithes Because I give them unto the Lord and He blesses me. You have come too late to tell me it's not important. I don't do it cuz I have to, I do it cuz I want to. And God always blesses those who give from the heart. I give tithes cuz I include God in every venture I pursue, and you know what? He always makes things come together In that venture when I include Him. I may give them to ministry but what they do with them is on them. That's their responsibility with God and they are held accountable for that. I gave it unto the Lord.

Now I'm not saying give your money to people who are about money. You know a wolf and someone with a car salesman spirit at least you should. If they pass the plate around multiple times don't trust them with nothing. Find you someone who could care less about your money and will still tell you the truth. I'm not saying don't use discretion but don't miss out on the blessing. I believe paying tithes and offerings is the true first step of obedience. If a person can't be trusted in their pocket book they can't be trusted anywhere else either! I judge ministry starting at this principle. How someone is about money will tell you all about who and how they really are!

Where is the command to to tithe money? Show me the scripture where I'm robbing God.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by diakonos

WHO was robbing God? It wasn’t Patrick or Patty Pentecost.

LOL

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How is that mean? You are the biggest advocate of getting all the non-tithers together to start a church (you'd all probably be in the dark, with the landlord outside with the sheriff) yet, you believe that you and the rest of the crew should be in a church of non tithers. Why endure sitting with a group (how Toastmaster puts it) liars? A preacher who has a congregation of saints paying tithes would be raising an eyebrow to a guy like Torchsinger. In other words, he wouldn't be welcomed, nor should he. Why? Because while the elders are going in one direction, the "name that doctrine" is going in the other. Whether we believe the elders are wrong or flat out lying. They are actually doing us and themselves a favor by showing us the door and giving us the left foot of fellowship. If you attend a church that believes in ABC, and you believe in 123, and you both know what each other believes and both parties agree to leave their differences at the prayer room door. That's all on you both, you agreed to disagree. But that would require no parking lot or Cracker Barrel Bible studies. In other words your "zeal" to be a man of the people would have to be laid down, in respect of the elders and their flock.
Look, half (I'm being kind) have never blood sweat and teared over building a church family. Been full time ministry sucking on your wallet while you dug out a church. So, when I see that you post that all the non tithers should get on the No Tithe Bus to the First Church of No Tithe. Bro, I doing a happy dance

Because every time I have seen you post that, the rest of your compadres go crickets on you.

I guess they're more than happy to attend tithing churches while they moan about the 10% getting handed to the church.

Pretty pathetic? Don't you agree? If you go, then shut up. If the church family believes in growing Rip Van Winkle Beards, or shaving as clean as a baby's hind end. If you go, and you don't agree, then be prepared to endure what ever gets slung over that pulpit. Don't become an ecclesiastical John Galt and blow the church family out of the water. While the elders see you bring your "truths" but in no way ready to deal with the fall out. A fall out, which you may of cause directly or inadvertently.

My goodness aren't we testy.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry, but no cigar.

If you attend church with a preacher who commits adultery and a church which is filled with perverts. You have a bigger problem then worrying about tithing hombre. Funny, how the religious believe that only standards of piety, holiness, and sinlessness, are only required for the ministry. While the laity could be attending the church and listening to preaching while they are all involved in porn.

Well congratulations! You completely missed my point. You responded to something I didn’t say and didn’t respond to what I did say. Which means everything is normal.

Hint: I never said the hypothetical preacher was committing adultery. Start with that and go from there.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

I pay tithes Because I give them unto the Lord . . .

Thanks for saying this. Everyone wants to give “as unto the Lord”.

How many times have you heard this phrase when tithes and offerings are collected? “Give as unto the Lord and He will bless you.”

But how did our Lord say that we could give as unto Him?

He gave pretty specific instructions on how to do that (or not). In Matthew chapter 25 . . .

[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[35] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[36] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

How much simpler can you get? Is there any way for it to be more straightforward? When you give like this, it is like you gave it to me (Jesus), on the other hand when you didn’t you gave not unto me. How can you mess this one up?

If you will take the time to read the list, there are a couple of items that didn’t make the list that you may find surprising.

1. The church

2. The pastor

3. Giving tithes

Okay three. I gave you a bonus. But for some reason I am bitter for pointing this out? What’s up with that?

I don’t wanna be a goat! I wanna be a sheep! The goats aren’t going anywhere nice. Ahhh but the sheep!!!! I wanna be found with them!

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by diakonos

What is a pastor that announces, “Don’t call me your pastor if you don’t pay tithes! Don’t say that this is your church!”

I get it. He needs to eat. Church bills need to get paid. I don’t believe in attending and NOT giving.

But, where is the line that divides pastor(ing) from hireling?

I HAD a pastor that told us that his family is not going to suffer. He let us know that PLENTY of churches would LOVE to have him as their pastor. How quick one goes from “God called me here” to pay to pray.

Careful there bro. Some may construe this to be bitter. Not me of course. But SOME may. Just sayin.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

If a preacher preaches a sermon against committing adultery, would you consider him a hypocrite? He obviously doesn’t believe in adultery yet he goes to a church with people who commit the sin of adultery. By your definition he would be a hypocrite.

Funny how that works.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry, but no cigar.

If you attend church with a preacher who commits adultery and a church which is filled with perverts. You have a bigger problem then worrying about tithing hombre.

Funny, how the religious believe that only standards of piety, holiness, and sinlessness, are only required for the ministry. While the laity could be attending the church and listening to preaching while they are all involved in porn.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Well congratulations! You completely missed my point. You responded to something I didn’t say and didn’t respond to what I did say. Which means everything is normal.

Hint: I never said the hypothetical preacher was committing adultery. Start with that and go from there.

I totally understood what you were trying to say in your post.
You believe that while the message being preached is against adultery and people are in adultery, are they hypocrites? The answer would be yes, they are hypocrites because they are attending a church while actively persistently committing sin. What I also pointed out is that you have the preacher preaching against sin, but believe that the congregants should keep attending while they are in sin unwilling to change.

What is normal for you, is that you never get the obvious when it concerns your own hypocrisy. Take your very own adultery preaching preacher, and replace the word "adultery" with "tithing" in the sermon. You in the congregation not only believe the guy is wrong, but that he is a filthy liar.

Therefore instead of preaching against adultery (in your case) he would be preaching FOR adultery. Since you obviously don't teach tithing. But the church of choice does?

Doesn't sound good.

But there are none so blind who will not see.

Now, the gist of the matter isn't old brother and sister so n so, not believing in XYZ and attending a church. But guys like you, who blow hot air on the forums as the man of the people, but don't even take their own advise. You sit in a pro tithing church and advocate people sit in a pro tithing church while beating a tin drum against tithing? Hence the reason why guys like me often ask "do you people ever vote with your feet?" Or "put your money where your mouth is?"

Which we are only met with dead silence or some lame scenario of a preacher preaching against sin, and sinners still making full attendance. Again, in your case, the preacher is the one advocating SIN, and you are the little boy in Hans Christian Andersen's story, the emperor's new clothes. See the difference? Probably not, most likely never will.

Rudy, is the only one I have ever seen post the logical obvious. "Hey, guys, let's all get together and start a congregation." He was even willing to fund it and move to attend. Sadly he was met with the same old same old. A bunch of guys on a forum who see themselves as Martin Luthers, while in reality they are more than happy charging fire breathing windmills of their minds.