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08-14-2017, 11:55 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 22
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
So let's sum all this up outside of the bitter ramblings:
V5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
So if a woman prays or prophesies with her head uncovered it would be as if she had completely shaved her head.
V6 ..For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
Basically reiterates verse 5
And how should a woman cover her head? Is a veil mentioned? Maybe a snazzy hat? Nope.
V15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Her hair is given her for a covering. Now I know there are several here that specialize in private interpretation but really, this couldn’t be any clearer.
Paul says beyond a shadow of a doubt that 1) God has a specific hierarchy of authority 2) that hierarchy goes Christ, man, woman 3) It is such a natural thing for a man to have short hair and a woman long hair that it is self-evident 4) In light of this natural indicator of masculinity and femininity, a woman shows that she keeps her place in God’s hierarchy by dint of her keeping her hair long i.e. her feminine role in that hierarchy.
Uncut isn't so clear but if one wants to err on the side of caution, God will bless that commitment i.e. 1Cor7 where Paul says some things aren't essential but if one does the "extra" in good conscious then all the better. And erring on the side of uncut is a far cry better than something completely man-made like the veil - especially since it opens up the woman to the lie that she can cut her hair to an unfeminine length and still be ok as long as she wears a veil
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08-14-2017, 12:25 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
ILG - you do have a bad attitude about this and about other things within the UPC.
At least that is my opinion.
And you can take it or leave it.
And I do believe it is salvational.
I do not believe in the HMH doctrine, if that is what you are trying to say with the other parts of the post.
Within the UPC, there are wide ranges of beliefs on different standards/doctrines.
And, just as you could find a church that preaches HMH, you could find a church that does not preach against women cutting their hair.
My issue with you is that you are not content to accept the fact that I believe it is biblical and salvational.
I have one quick question for you.
Do believe that people adhering to the UPC standards/doctrines and living a holy life are saved?
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I will give you this-I think you are the first person that's ever said it's salvational so at least you are being honest! Most people say it's not salvational.
Yes, I believe that they are saved.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-14-2017, 12:29 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain
Uncut isn't so clear but if one wants to err on the side of caution, God will bless that commitment i.e. 1Cor7 where Paul says some things aren't essential but if one does the "extra" in good conscious then all the better. And erring on the side of uncut is a far cry better than something completely man-made like the veil - especially since it opens up the woman to the lie that she can cut her hair to an unfeminine length and still be ok as long as she wears a veil
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So, you admit that uncut isn't so clear. So, those of us who choose to cut our hair (but not like a man's cut-to be clear) and don't want to "err on the side of caution" are still blessed and saved, right?
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-14-2017, 12:45 PM
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Covenant Apostolic
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 8,754
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
ILG, may I ask you, do you still believe Oneness, Acts 2:38, ect, but just don't believe in traditional standards?
__________________
The love of learning, sequestered nooks,
All the sweet serenity of books.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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08-14-2017, 12:49 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah
ILG, may I ask you, do you still believe Oneness, Acts 2:38, ect, but just don't believe in traditional standards?
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If you are asking if I believe the hardline, you must 1. Repent and then 2. Be baptized with a preacher saying the name of Jesus over you while you are immersed and then 3. Speak in tongues and believe in the Oneness of God to be saved the answer is no.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-14-2017, 12:54 PM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,541
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston
Don't do it to be saved, but because you're saved?
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I just remember singing
There is power in the name of Jesus
There is power in the name of Jesus
To break every chain
Break every chain
Break every chain
That is my focus. Because i know that works.
__________________
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08-14-2017, 12:56 PM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,541
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
If you are asking if I believe the hardline, you must 1. Repent and then 2. Be baptized with a preacher saying the name of Jesus over you while you are immersed and then 3. Speak in tongues and believe in the Oneness of God to be saved the answer is no.
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Okay, so hair isn't salvational, but Acts 2:38 is. That is the Gospel the apostles tell us we must obey.
__________________
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08-14-2017, 12:56 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
I just remember singing
There is power in the name of Jesus
There is power in the name of Jesus
To break every chain
Break every chain
Break every chain
That is my focus. Because i know that works.
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That's the whole thing right there. That works!
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-14-2017, 01:00 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Okay, so hair isn't salvational, but Acts 2:38 is. That is the Gospel the apostles tell us we must obey.
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Not everyone in the UPC even believes this in the hardline way. Some believe that you MUST do this in order to be saved-some believe this in a softer way. It was the difference in the two sides of belief at the merger. But-I don't want to veer off into hardline vs softline. I do believe in Oneness but that's my default setting.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-14-2017, 01:02 PM
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Covenant Apostolic
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 8,754
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Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
If you are asking if I believe the hardline, you must 1. Repent and then 2. Be baptized with a preacher saying the name of Jesus over you while you are immersed and then 3. Speak in tongues and believe in the Oneness of God to be saved the answer is no.
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it is weird, I don't know anyone who dropped standards and kept the message, I don't understand how that works.
__________________
The love of learning, sequestered nooks,
All the sweet serenity of books.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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