Charismatic Sweep

[Michael The Disciple]

But if they were to call Jesus by the name his family and the Apostles called him it would certainly not be wrong.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

But if they were to call Jesus by the name his family and the Apostles called him it would certainly not be wrong.

Mike you assume they were all speaking Hebrew. You like Mel Gibson think that the community of Jerusalem and Galilee of the GENTILES were all speaking nothing more than Hebrew/Aramaic. I gave you the arguments for the Greek speaking Roman occupied Hellenized Eastern world. How the New Testament quotes a GREEK copy of the Old Testament. How Jesus spoke to the Syrain woman and called her the name of a scrap eating dog which is only found in GREEK. Further more calling Peter a stone, and that the revelation Jesus is the Christ is the Rock only works in Greek. Is further proof. Yet the kicker is that Jesus had disciples who were called by Greek only names which have no Hebrew/Aramaic origins. Even Nicodemus a RULER of the Judeans had a Greek only name. Jesus was taken as a child to a Judean community in Egypt were GREEK was the lingua franca. So, what Mary and the Apostles called Him is the Greek transliterated name Iesous, which we know today as Jesus. For over 2000 years we have been calling Him Jesus. Only since the 70s have we had the infilertration of everything HEBREW. In an effort to sound more Jewish? Mike the Apostle Paul would of address the church in Greek and used Jesus’ Greek name.
You moan about traditions of men, but you hold on to your Hebrew Onlyism just as tightly as any standard. It’s 2020 Mike, time for you to wake up.

[Michael The Disciple]

And yet Josephus who lived during that time who is considered to be reputable among many historians said he only knew a few Jews who spoke Greek and that he himself did not do it well.

Im sure some of them spoke Greek. It is written that on the cross the words were written in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek. There was a reason for that.

As far as Hellenists the book of Acts makes clear they were the minority.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And yet Josephus who lived during that time who is considered to be reputable among many historians said he only knew a few Jews who spoke Greek and that he himself did not do it well.

Im sure some of them spoke Greek. It is written that on the cross the words were written in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek. There was a reason for that.

As far as Hellenists the book of Acts makes clear they were the minority.

Mike, do you know anything other than what you were told about Uncle Joe?
If you EVER took the time to read the writings of Josephus you find total contradictions and utter falsehoods. I was a fan of Uncle Joe at one time. But Brother William Chalfant compelled me to look further into the writings. What I found was surprising. As far as you being sure some of them spoke Greek means nothing. Because it is totally based on your feelings, same as someone who feels it’s right to grow or not to grow a beard. I give hard evidence stemming from a totally GREEK New Testament. Which was NEVER originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic. The whole Messianic Charismatic YAHwists are not only wrong, but silly, and baseless.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The message on the cross was threefold just like the Rosetta Stone.
It was how rulers got their message across to all the occupied subjects of the kingdom. All knew how to read, and all understood the message. The folks out in small villages around Judea would of spoke Aramaic, as well as some words in Latin. Greek was the language of commerce, Latin the language of the Western Roman Empire. Aramaic the language of the villagers out in the country. Yet all spoke Greek. Just like English today is the universal language abroad, and of commerce. So was Greek in the ancient world. We even see that in our own modern English, the effects of Greek, and Latin roots. Even Turkish uses Greek words. But, sadly you are stuck in your Hippy YAH ecclesiastical wonderland were you are the perfect prophet. Stuck in your past, and unwilling to face the future. Good luck with that.

[diakonos]

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by n david

Yes, I know of quite a few "Charismatic churches" where they don't believe (or no longer believe) that baptism in Jesus' name or speaking in tongues as the initial sign of Spirit baptism as necessities.

The first thing usually to go is tongues being the initial outward sign on baptism in the Holy Ghost, which leads to such doctrines on baptism and other issues to change as well.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Mike, do you know anything other than what you were told about Uncle Joe?
If you EVER took the time to read the writings of Josephus you find total contradictions and utter falsehoods. I was a fan of Uncle Joe at one time. But Brother William Chalfant compelled me to look further into the writings. What I found was surprising. As far as you being sure some of them spoke Greek means nothing. Because it is totally based on your feelings, same as someone who feels it’s right to grow or not to grow a beard. I give hard evidence stemming from a totally GREEK New Testament. Which was NEVER originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic. The whole Messianic Charismatic YAHwists are not only wrong, but silly, and baseless.

Well I never intended to take Holy Rollers thread off topic. I personally just cant think of any Charismatic groups that have a doctrine about Hebrew names. As one who sought information about Hebrew names in the past I noticed that the Hebrew name only groups were GENERALLY LAW KEEPERS. Not Charismatics.

I think of Dr. Michael Brown as being Charismatic. As a Jew he also is Charismatic. Yet even he minimizes any Gentiles using the name Yeshua. But as I have said There are thousands of Charismatic Churches so apparently you know some that promote Hebrew names only.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Holy Roller

Yes, I know of quite a few "Charismatic churches" where they don't believe (or no longer believe) that baptism in Jesus' name or speaking in tongues as the initial sign of Spirit baptism as necessities.

The first thing usually to go is tongues being the initial outward sign on baptism in the Holy Ghost, which leads to such doctrines on baptism and other issues to change as well.

Okay. I thought you were talking about Oneness A/P churches.

In my experience with "Charismatic churches," they believe in tongues (most call it "prayer language") but they believe it's just an added benefit for a believer rather than a necessity for salvation. And baptism is merely a person getting dunked in front of people to prove their decision to follow Christ.

For them it's like buying a car. There's the base model (salvation at repentance), and then you can add upgrades if you want (not necessary, but available).

I spoke with an "Executive Pastor" of a church nearby about their statement of faith and beliefs about salvation. I was told they believe in the new birth and believe everyone should have the new birth experience, BUT salvation is at repentance and they "strongly urge" believers to seek for the HG and exercise their "prayer language."

I asked him how he believed salvation at repentance was the new birth, since repentance = death, baptism = burial and the infilling of the HG = resurrection. I said there's no resurrection. There was a death, and most of the time there's a burial, but they're still in the grave. Some have attended for years and never sought after or received the HG because they don't believe it's necessary.

He said he understood my argument as he grew up in the Spanish Apostolic organization, but from reading scripture he believed salvation occurs at repentance, regardless of the "man-made symbolism" for the new birth.

Sad.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Mike, do you know anything other than what you were told about Uncle Joe?
If you EVER took the time to read the writings of Josephus you find total contradictions and utter falsehoods. I was a fan of Uncle Joe at one time. But Brother William Chalfant compelled me to look further into the writings. What I found was surprising. As far as you being sure some of them spoke Greek means nothing. Because it is totally based on your feelings, same as someone who feels it’s right to grow or not to grow a beard. I give hard evidence stemming from a totally GREEK New Testament. Which was NEVER originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic. The whole Messianic Charismatic YAHwists are not only wrong, but silly, and baseless.

There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while!