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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
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11-08-2017, 09:24 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 19
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89
You will find that in the UPC.
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What type of doctrinal laxity consists within the UPCI? I find the majority of congregations leaning to a pre-trib rapture, nor do I find any other doctrinal laxity of differing views from premillennialism (amillienialism, postmillenialism). Maybe this is also due to my lack of exposure to other UPCI congregations across the country.
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11-08-2017, 09:27 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 19
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
Quote:
Originally Posted by thephnxman
His NAME is Jesus!
Beloved, are you currently an ordained minister? Do you have the
Lord's calling? Or is it just something you desire?
I would advise a novice to refrain from attending two ministries at
a time, until they be grounded in the faith and fully developed in
sound doctrine.
If a person has matured and is seeking the will of the Lord, and is
aspiring to an office in the ministry...get down to serious (SERIOUS)
prayer. If the calling into the ministry is there, the Lord will confirm it
"...by the mouth of two witnesses or three."
May the Lord fulfill His will in you.
Brother Villa
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I believe I have the Lord's calling. Few individuals have spoken to me about this. A good number see talent, but also future apologetic ministry within me. I'm not currently ordained, but I seek to be ordained in the UPCI after my Bible college years.
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11-08-2017, 09:53 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,242
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Miller
What type of doctrinal laxity consists within the UPCI? I find the majority of congregations leaning to a pre-trib rapture, nor do I find any other doctrinal laxity of differing views from premillennialism (amillienialism, postmillenialism). Maybe this is also due to my lack of exposure to other UPCI congregations across the country.
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What I mean by that is that the UPCi is generally a lax org on many doctrinal stances when it comes to allowing membership. New Birth, Holiness, Eschatology. There may be some position papers issued and articles written defending some points of view, but generally speaking, it seems like they will tolerate most doctrinal diversions. I don't consider that a positive thing, but it does seem true at least in our area.
We fellowship the more conservative groups in Pentecost and even in those groups, there is some allowance for differences of opinion concerning eschatology. However, Most Apostolics are Premillennial. I've never met any Apostolic preachers that believed post millennial or amillennial. Thank God!
Last edited by consapente89; 11-08-2017 at 09:57 AM.
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11-08-2017, 10:46 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
His NAME is Jesus!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Miller
I believe I have the Lord's calling. Few individuals have spoken to me about this.
A good number see talent, but also future apologetic ministry within me. I'm not
currently ordained, but I seek to be ordained in the UPCI after my Bible college years.
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I am unfamiliar and cannot relate to "apologetics", although I do see it in the
Apostle Paul's ministry as an apostle, and to his letters to the church. Also,
I do not see it (apologetics) as useful with "...the work of the ministry..." ; that
is, with the preaching of the gospel that saves.
Now that is my PERSONAL opinion on the ministration of the gospel, as I now
understand it: that those who will be saved, will be saved by BELIEVING and
not by being convinced of its authenticity.
FOLKS, THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION TO HEAR YOUR APOLOGETICS!
Brother Villa
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11-08-2017, 12:19 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 474
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89
What I mean by that is that the UPCi is generally a lax org on many doctrinal stances when it comes to allowing membership. New Birth, Holiness, Eschatology. There may be some position papers issued and articles written defending some points of view, but generally speaking, it seems like they will tolerate most doctrinal diversions. I don't consider that a positive thing, but it does seem true at least in our area.
We fellowship the more conservative groups in Pentecost and even in those groups, there is some allowance for differences of opinion concerning eschatology. However, Most Apostolics are Premillennial. I've never met any Apostolic preachers that believed post millennial or amillennial. Thank God!
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I am no longer a member of a UPC church but when you say lax, are you implying that those salvation differences can be shared from the pulpit. If so, they've really become tolerant.
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11-09-2017, 09:26 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 19
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
Quote:
Originally Posted by thephnxman
His NAME is Jesus!
I am unfamiliar and cannot relate to "apologetics", although I do see it in the
Apostle Paul's ministry as an apostle, and to his letters to the church. Also,
I do not see it (apologetics) as useful with "...the work of the ministry..." ; that
is, with the preaching of the gospel that saves.
Now that is my PERSONAL opinion on the ministration of the gospel, as I now
understand it: that those who will be saved, will be saved by BELIEVING and
not by being convinced of its authenticity.
FOLKS, THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION TO HEAR YOUR APOLOGETICS!
Brother Villa
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No, I don't think that apologetics is outside or ineffective of spreading the gospel. Seeing it as merely a method of being convinced of the gospel's authenticity is misunderstanding what apologetics does as ministry. Apologetics is intended to help believers critically think about the faith they hold, and it helps the critical thinker believe. Thinkers are helped to believe in apologetics because they have intellectual/emotional stumbling blocks that prevent them to have saving faith. Stumbling blocks that are intellectual can't merely be removed or answered within sermons from evangelists (I am not watering down the integrity and power of God in the gospel), but it also would help pastors in their ministries in using apologetic tools (unprofessionally) to at least tend to their congregants who need answers to biblical/theological/philosophical/scientific inquiry concerning God. Within our already postmodern culture in the United States, it is very much needed since people no longer will be taking the gospel at face value unlike years prior to this time (which is why it would be useful for pastors to adopt some effective way in answering apologetic-based inquiry).
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11-09-2017, 09:58 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 19
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89
What I mean by that is that the UPCi is generally a lax org on many doctrinal stances when it comes to allowing membership. New Birth, Holiness, Eschatology. There may be some position papers issued and articles written defending some points of view, but generally speaking, it seems like they will tolerate most doctrinal diversions. I don't consider that a positive thing, but it does seem true at least in our area.
We fellowship the more conservative groups in Pentecost and even in those groups, there is some allowance for differences of opinion concerning eschatology. However, Most Apostolics are Premillennial. I've never met any Apostolic preachers that believed post millennial or amillennial. Thank God!
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Yeah, I am actually quite glad that I haven't met any Apostolic preachers with non-premillennial views. I've never heard of UPCI allowing those at the pulpit to have doctrinal differences in soteriology or holiness. While I don't see doctrinal laxity being a positive thing, it wouldn't be seen negative so long as if it's not lax on essential biblical doctrines. The way I would see it as positive though is in the non-essential area of doctrines that an individual would deem a pure conviction on a certain matter (Molinist rather than an Arminian, Zwinglian sin nature over original sin nature, timing of the Lord's coming, etc.).
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11-11-2017, 04:18 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
His NAME is Jesus!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Miller
No, I don't think that apologetics is outside or ineffective of spreading the gospel. Seeing it as merely a method of being convinced of the gospel's authenticity is misunderstanding what apologetics does as ministry. Apologetics is intended to help believers critically think about the faith they hold, and it helps the critical thinker believe. Thinkers are helped to believe in apologetics because they have intellectual/emotional stumbling blocks that prevent them to have saving faith. Stumbling blocks that are intellectual can't merely be removed or answered within sermons from evangelists (I am not watering down the integrity and power of God in the gospel), but it also would help pastors in their ministries in using apologetic tools (unprofessionally) to at least tend to their congregants who need answers to biblical/theological/philosophical/scientific inquiry concerning God. Within our already postmodern culture in the United States, it is very much needed since people no longer will be taking the gospel at face value unlike years prior to this time (which is why it would be useful for pastors to adopt some effective way in answering apologetic-based inquiry).
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apologetics: the [branch of theology] concerned with the defence and
rational justification of Christianity
I believe that faith in the gospel that saves needs no defence, neither can it
be justified by natural, human reasoning. What I see happening is men who
profess christianity attempting to convince others and each other of their own
righteous standing.
I bear 3 witnesses to my gospel:
Apostle Paul: 1 Cor 15: 1-4;
Apostle Peter: Acts 2:38; and,
Jesus Christ: Mark 16:16.
Those whose doctrine(s) is not supported by those three witnesses are thieves,
who would pervert the gospel that saves.
Brother Villa
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11-11-2017, 05:04 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,009
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
Paul engaged in apologetics. So did Peter. And so did Jesus.
We all do, in fact. The question is, does our apologetic match theirs?
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11-11-2017, 09:20 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
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Re: Fellowship with Other Church Organizations
His NAME is Jesus![
QUOTE=Esaias;1509558]Paul engaged in apologetics. So did Peter. And so did Jesus.
We all do, in fact. The question is, does our apologetic match theirs?[/QUOTE]
Very well put, Beloved.
Unfortunately, I don't see that caliber of men on this forum, INCLUDING MYSELF.
The Lord came out of the wilderness preaching the straight path; and we need to go
BACK; away from dictionaries and doctrines of men, to be led once again by the Holy
Spirit that embodied itself in the Lord. Or would anyone here call call a child a liar
because he is still not strong, or weak in what he believes? Should we criticize
and condemn the ones for whom the Lord has died?
Brother Villa
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