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  #131  
Old 12-18-2013, 09:50 AM
obriencp obriencp is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy View Post
Of course. It is when those dress codes become the measuring stick of another person's status with God that the spirit of the Pharisees (or the leaven of the Pharisees) is present.
I concur.
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  #132  
Old 12-19-2013, 01:24 PM
Tina Tina is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
Ok.... I just now read the thread and as usual find myself in the middle.

I do agree with most of N David's responses though.

Roxanne It's important to realize there are many honest, transparent, and well educated members in the UPC and conservative "standard adhering" groups within the. Body of Christ. Because you and your pastor were not, doesn't automatically speak to the character of others.

Now, I am not educated with degrees in higher learning, but even in my most conservative times I was not condemning, judgmental, nor even excessively critical of those attending nonstandard churches.

Sooo... It seems to me when we profile conservatives as a block we risk embracing the same thinking that often leads to labeling those who have left as "charismatics" (like they all are, or that it's a bad thing).

We can speak of our own experience and shallowness... But beyond that, postulating carries little weight. I rejoice in new-found honesty wherever it's found, but wholly understand that disingenuous, shallow, and condemning people are found everywhere. We all need Jesus to speak to us about His sufficiency in our lives.

I am late getting in on this thread as well, but Steve, I must say you have just again reminded me why I have such great respect for you.

Welcome back, Roxanne!!
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  #133  
Old 01-05-2014, 06:12 PM
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy View Post
Of course. It is when those dress codes become the measuring stick of another person's status with God that the spirit of the Pharisees (or the leaven of the Pharisees) is present.
Roxanne,

I have been away for a few weeks so just today saw this thread. I think your quote above pretty much sums up in my mind your metamorphosis.

Since you communicated to me privately some time ago about what was happening with you, your husband, and your church I have been praying for all as you go through this process.

I hoped that when the time was right you would engage again in the forum so I am very pleased to see your thread here.
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #134  
Old 01-05-2014, 09:59 PM
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Roxanne Murphy Roxanne Murphy is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Roxanne,

I have been away for a few weeks so just today saw this thread. I think your quote above pretty much sums up in my mind your metamorphosis.

Since you communicated to me privately some time ago about what was happening with you, your husband, and your church I have been praying for all as you go through this process.

I hoped that when the time was right you would engage again in the forum so I am very pleased to see your thread here.
Yes, I remember that Sean did chat with you privately about what we are (and have been) experiencing. We appreciate your friendship, encouragement and prayers. It continues to be an interesting ride at times but we are seeing God do some amazing things in our church body as God continues to lead us as we reach out for hungry hearts and we see Him bring healing and new life to those same hungry hearts.
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  #135  
Old 01-06-2014, 07:50 AM
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Re: Back with some new perspective

That is a poor copout for an organization who profession to have a monopoly on truth, standards should be higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post


There's bad on both sides of the aisle and there's bad in EVERY organization and denomination. Anyone who doesn't realize that is simply naive. Anywhere there are people, there are going to be flaws.
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  #136  
Old 01-06-2014, 07:52 AM
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Incorrect as usual N. A Pharisee is a person who judges a person by non biblical standards, which most of the upc and ultra conservatives do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
This.

Also 99% of the time it's used as a derogatory term meant to bash UPC'ers or other conservatives.
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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  #137  
Old 01-06-2014, 08:48 AM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Incorrect as usual N. A Pharisee is a person who judges a person by non biblical standards, which most of the upc and ultra conservatives do.
You just proved my point.

Quote:
99% of the time it's used as a derogatory term meant to bash UPC'ers or other conservatives.
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  #138  
Old 01-06-2014, 09:44 AM
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MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
That is a poor copout for an organization who profession to have a monopoly on truth, standards should be higher.
It wasn't spoken in defense of an organization as much as to point out that other organizations have similar problems. People are the common denominator; not the acronym.
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To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

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  #139  
Old 01-06-2014, 09:45 AM
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Incorrect as usual N. A Pharisee is a person who judges a person by non biblical standards, which most of the upc and ultra conservatives do.
A Pharisee is anyone who is hypocritical and self-righteous. Non-biblical standards aren't required for that sort of attitude.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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  #140  
Old 01-06-2014, 11:16 AM
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Re: Back with some new perspective

When the majority of ultra conservatives and upc stop decades of hypocrisy, than maybe the label will wear off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
You just proved my point.
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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