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  #51  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:35 AM
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Subdued Subdued is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michlow View Post
I feel once again that I need to make a distinction, there is a difference between those who are born and raised in an abusive environment, and those who just experience it for a time.

Those who are born in it, are made to think that it is normal. It colors and distorts their entire view of the world around them. It is much harder for them, because they effectively need to first be shown that they have a distorted image, and then they need to be helped to build a true and Godly foundation.

Those who never gain the revelation that what they were "sold" was a lie, are those who walk away from God and everything associated with Him. They harbor great bitterness and become hardened and antagonistic towards the things of God.

Those who are born in a healthy environment, but for a time find themselves in an abusive environment, have an edge up, so to speak. They are more likely to realize that there is a problem a lot sooner, and to get out while only minimal damage has been done. They are also more likely to seek a healthy environment, and to forgive and "move on".
Of course! Often times, those born into abusive situations continue to go from one abusive situation to another. As you said, they need to re-learn what is right, appropriate & healthy.
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  #52  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:35 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
I told my husband some time back that I know why some have written on those abuse sites....especially women...
and the reason[s] would be ??????
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  #53  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:35 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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I was very blessed with such a kind pastor growing up and my husband has such a kind spirit...I am blessed...
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  #54  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Subdued View Post
True! Perhaps the person doesn't know the right way to obtain healing...? OR, maybe they just enjoy the attention/drama. Depends on the person, I suppose. Wounds do need time, and sometimes attention, to heal, though. But as SE said, picking at the scab could cause more damage.
True. I have had some hurt that took longer than others. I've had it removed as easily as lifting my hands in service and asking God to take it away. Some hurt has taken longer.
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  #55  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:37 AM
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Rhymis Rhymis is offline
Traveling the Road of Infraction ......


 
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Originally Posted by Actaeon View Post
I wonder, is allowing a child to indulge himself in eating all and everything he so desires without trying to guide him into a healthy diet an abuse? Is his obesity a sign of abuse? And is the child that is given his way in everything in life because of the risk of a temper traumatic display if not allowed to do as he pleases. Is his, later in life, prison uniform a sign of past abuse? One wonders, can abuse be not just dis-allowance but can it also be allowance?
Abuse can be abuse even when it is pleasing to the abused? I think so.
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  #56  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:40 AM
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I too believe saints can be abusive too ...

But as parents, in the natural, since we are the mature adults in position of authority ... do we call it 'abuse' when our kids act out ... throw tantrums, demand, etc .... no ....

we know they are children ....

Yet we are held accountable as adults for our actions towards our children ... being that we know better ..... and hold the position of authority....

It is for this reason that we cannot say there is somehow a balance between abuse of pastoral authority and the wanton nature of many saints
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  #57  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:42 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
According to spiritualabuse.org it is described as ....

What is spiritual abuse? Just as emotional abuse affects one emotionally, while physical abuse inflicts pain and bodily injury on its victim, spiritual abuse affects one spiritually. It is the result of a spiritual leader or system that tries to control, manipulate, or dominate a person. This control is often in the form of fear. This is considered a major factor in mind control or thought reform. There are those who feel the latter comes into play in cases such as these, while others feel the thinking is in error. No matter where one stands, it does not lessen the affects of spiritual abuse.

David Johnson & Jeff VanVonderen in The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse describe the action: "It's possible to become so determined to defend a spiritual place of authority, a doctrine or a way of doing things that you wound and abuse anyone who questions, or disagrees, or doesn't 'behave' spiritually the way you want them to. When your words and actions tear down another, or attack or weaken a person's standing as a Christian- to gratify you, your position or your beliefs while at the same time weakening or harming another- that is spiritual abuse."

Does leadership in your church demand you consult with them (or your discipler) before making major decisions or any decisions at all? Has leadership forbidden you to go on vacation or spend time with someone (particularly one who has left the church group)?

Do you find yourself periodically questioning your spirituality or standing with God? Have you been preoccupied with checking out others in the congregation to see who is living up to the rules and who isn't?

Are extra-biblical rules and standards equated as coming from God, with your salvation or spirituality linked to following them? Do you find that cutting or not cutting your hair has now become an indicator of your spirituality?

Has the initial joy you felt when first coming to know the Lord been replaced with worry? Do you feel you're not doing enough or are not good enough and can't live up to what is expected?

Do services uplift and give strength or do you feel sad, beaten down, or depressed afterward? Has your view of God changed to where he is seen as a harsh taskmaster, eagerly waiting for you to mess up so he can chastise you or leave you behind?

If you have experienced any of these, or similar, you may be a victim of spiritual abuse.


______________________________

Here are some questions for y'all?

- Does spiritual abuse happen in our circles?
-What recourse do victims of spiritual abuse have to deal w/ this issue?
- Are those who expose this abuse victims ... or spewers of venom, whiners and standard-haters?
I'm not sure I believe in this so-called "spiritual abuse." The notion of the Church (or, more specifically, the leadership in a particular church) trying "to control, manipulate, or dominate a person" is fairly subjective. Is it really control or is it the leadership exercising the authority that God has given them? If it's the leadership exercising God-given authority, then those who are resisting that authority (in their claim of being "spiritually abused") are actually in rebellion against God. However, when the leadership imposes "extra-biblical rules and standards" (things that are not based on any biblical command or principle taken in their contexts), it is operating outside of its God-given authority.

As for the question, "Does leadership in your church demand you consult with them (or your discipler) before making major decisions or any decisions at all?" If someone is a new Christian and struggles in certain areas then consulting with the leadership or the brother or sister who is discipling you can be helpful.

As for the question, "Has leadership forbidden you to go on vacation or spend time with someone (particularly one who has left the church group)?" the two are unrelated. There is no God-given authority invested in the leadership to tell you whether or not you can go on vacation. That doesn't mean, however, that you are free to do it without first getting permission from God to go. As for not spending time with someone, I think the leadership has God-given authority to tell the saints that they should not fellowship with someone who has left the church - if the person who has left did so because he or she has embraced heresy or has become reprobate. Further, the Bible says that bad company corrupts good morals and, so, I see that as God-given authority for the leadership to tell you that you shouldn't spend time with a particular person whose influence would negatively affect your relationship with Christ.

As for, "Do you feel you're not doing enough or are not good enough and can't live up to what is expected?" We are not doing enough and are not good enough. None of us are perfect and, thus, we always fall short of God's perfect standard. Further, Jesus specifically said that there is none good but God and, so, it's obvious none of us are good enough because none of us are good. Also, we can't live up to what God expects of us without the help of His Spirit dwelling in us.

Christianity is NOT a democracy. The saints are to obey those whom God has placed over them and, in those areas where the church leadership's authority does not extend, are to obey God.

The website you got this from is a spurious source that seems to have a vendetta against the UPC in particular. Its creators carry within them a rebellious spirit that seeks to overthrow God-given authority in their lives.
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  #58  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:43 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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and the reason would be some men ( I am not down on men) are so overbearing and hard on their wife she ends up with such hidden anger and hurt...
Have you noticed there are so many divorces and people that are not happy (ministers and their wives)
Lots of God's ladies talk to me...We really need help in Pentecostal circles. We need lots of counsel from the wise...
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  #59  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:43 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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I love you Chan ... you're a maverick.
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  #60  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:45 AM
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Rhymis Rhymis is offline
Traveling the Road of Infraction ......


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
I love you Chan ... you're a maverick.
DA is calling people names again!
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