Manny Pacquiao

[RevDanBurns]

I've seen many of my friends come out in support of Manny Pacquiao and supporting his comments against the LGBT community.

Let me get a few points out there for clarity to start:

Homosexuality IS a sin. There are liberal interpreters who will claim the word as we use it today wasn't used in Biblical times, but they are only deceiving themselves. But gay sex isn't the only sexual sin that will send people to Hell and is an abomination to God. The Bible also has a laundry list of heterosexual sins that are also going to exclude you from Heaven.

There is a way out: JESUS! It's not an unforgivable sin! For straight people, Paul tells them to marry. For gay people, pretty much abstinence is the only option the Bible gives. Or marry a woman, but that suggests they can "pray it away" and there is evidence that there are a small percentage of the population who are really born that way. But God made them, God loves them, and God also gives them a plan for salvation.

But Manny's comments? They leave out anything about the love of Christ. They leave out the GOOD NEWS!

And this is the issue I see with much of the Christian response to the LGBT community. It's based in hatred and intolerance. We can say we love the sinner but hate the sin, but when all you do is tell people about the fire and don't bring them to The Well for the drink of Living Water, you don't love them.

Manny's comments are not making Christianity better, they are making it worse.

And all he's doing by making comments such as he has is giving more power to the LGBT movement. The Church has a lot to answer for why this movement is gaining the traction it has in this country. God will judge the world, yes, but remember the first that gets judged is the Church and his sheep and goats.

http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns...a-hatchet-job/

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by RevDanBurns

I've seen many of my friends come out in support of Manny Pacquiao and supporting his comments against the LGBT community.

Let me get a few points out there for clarity to start:

Homosexuality IS a sin. There are liberal interpreters who will claim the word as we use it today wasn't used in Biblical times, but they are only deceiving themselves. But gay sex isn't the only sexual sin that will send people to Hell and is an abomination to God. The Bible also has a laundry list of heterosexual sins that are also going to exclude you from Heaven.

There is a way out: JESUS! It's not an unforgivable sin! For straight people, Paul tells them to marry. For gay people, pretty much abstinence is the only option the Bible gives. Or marry a woman, but that suggests they can "pray it away" and there is evidence that there are a small percentage of the population who are really born that way. But God made them, God loves them, and God also gives them a plan for salvation.

But Manny's comments? They leave out anything about the love of Christ. They leave out the GOOD NEWS!

And this is the issue I see with much of the Christian response to the LGBT community. It's based in hatred and intolerance. We can say we love the sinner but hate the sin, but when all you do is tell people about the fire and don't bring them to The Well for the drink of Living Water, you don't love them.

Manny's comments are not making Christianity better, they are making it worse.

And all he's doing by making comments such as he has is giving more power to the LGBT movement. The Church has a lot to answer for why this movement is gaining the traction it has in this country. God will judge the world, yes, but remember the first that gets judged is the Church and his sheep and goats.

http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns...a-hatchet-job/

ummm...how is the highlighted section logical??

[Servant's <3]

Paul didn't tell straight people to marry. By that logic Paul was gay... I don't see any example of that.

Paul said it is better to marry than burn (with lust). It is my understanding that not burning with lust does not make one gay.

[RevDanBurns]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

ummm...how is the highlighted section logical??

It's scripture.

I Corinthians 6 talks about sexual sins in the Church. A whole long list. Among the heterosexual sins we have verse 9: "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men."

So what is logical? Snapping the Bible shut and condemning people to Hell with no plan of salvation? No, please, tell me what's not logical in my post. I am curious. Because if we just end it there, it's not logical.

I Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

So Paul recognized that people would want to have sex. Either the answer was abstinence, but he realized that would cause people to fall to temptation. So chapter 7 continues the thought from the end of chapter 6 (remember there were no chapter stops in the original text) and goes on to say a man should have sexual relations with his wife to keep from sexual immorality outside of marriage.

So for somebody who identifies as having attraction to the same sex, what does that leave them? "Pray it away?" That idea is quite destructive and damaging. With prayer, I believe anybody can overcome temptation to sin, but do they ever pray it away? It's controversial, but it's doubtful. So according to Paul's letter to the church, they could marry a woman to overcome their temptation. Or they could abstain.

What other option is there? Condemn them all to Hell? Say gay marriage is OK for them? Neither is a Biblical answer. So what is the option other than abstinence if they don't want to marry? They are sinners, yes, but their sin isn't the unforgivable sin, either.

[RevDanBurns]

Originally Posted by Servant's <3

Paul didn't tell straight people to marry. By that logic Paul was gay... I don't see any example of that.

Paul said it is better to marry than burn (with lust). It is my understanding that not burning with lust does not make one gay.

You're missing the point a bit, but that's OK. Just re-read I Corinthians 6-7. And, you're totally taking what I said the wrong way. Wow...just completely.

And I never said Paul was gay. I don't get how that was construed from what I wrote. Please, point it out. That's not rhetorical, either. If I wrote it wrong, I may be re-reading it the wrong way. That's not what I was saying at all.

Paul addressed sexual immorality in the church, including sexual sin of homosexuality. He wrote: "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." He identified people in the church who were homosexuals but they were now justified in the name of Jesus. But they were among all the other sexual immoral that were in the church.

He goes on to say that it's better for a person to remain single (as he was) but offered marriage to a woman if they cannot control themselves.

So those are the two ways he gives to people who are tempted by sin to overcome the temptation: Get married or remain single, devote themselves to prayer, and come together with other believers so Satan cannot tempt them.

[Servant's <3]

Maybe, I'm mistaken in the way it came across to me but you said:

"For straight people Paul tells them to marry. For gay people" etc etc.

You didn't state any other alternative for straight people. I don't think it's what you meant but you sort of implied it by only giving two options. Again I could have read it wrong.

BTW... there is no evidence that says gay people are "born that way". I don't believe God creates people "that way"

I do agree with you that they need Jesus and they should not be banned from the church or anything of the sort, but they should not be allowed to teach or preach either.

Also, Paul wasn't married (no evidence that he was ever married) and as stated if you present two options. Straight people = marriage, Gay people = permanent abstinence then.... you can see where I'm going.

[bishoph]

my good friend,It seems to me that you have bought the LGBT hype....there are NO studies that "prove" some people are born gay.... in fact quite the opposite is true.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by bishoph

my good friend,It seems to me that you have bought the LGBT hype....there are NO studies that "prove" some people are born gay.... in fact quite the opposite is true.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by RevDanBurns

It's scripture.

I Corinthians 6 talks about sexual sins in the Church. A whole long list. Among the heterosexual sins we have verse 9: "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men."

So what is logical? Snapping the Bible shut and condemning people to Hell with no plan of salvation? No, please, tell me what's not logical in my post. I am curious. Because if we just end it there, it's not logical.

I Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

So Paul recognized that people would want to have sex. Either the answer was abstinence, but he realized that would cause people to fall to temptation. So chapter 7 continues the thought from the end of chapter 6 (remember there were no chapter stops in the original text) and goes on to say a man should have sexual relations with his wife to keep from sexual immorality outside of marriage.

So for somebody who identifies as having attraction to the same sex, what does that leave them? "Pray it away?" That idea is quite destructive and damaging. With prayer, I believe anybody can overcome temptation to sin, but do they ever pray it away? It's controversial, but it's doubtful. So according to Paul's letter to the church, they could marry a woman to overcome their temptation. Or they could abstain.

What other option is there? Condemn them all to Hell? Say gay marriage is OK for them? Neither is a Biblical answer. So what is the option other than abstinence if they don't want to marry? They are sinners, yes, but their sin isn't the unforgivable sin, either.

Your opening post summary-

"God made some people with heterosexual desire. If they're burning with lust, they can fulfill that desire via marriage."

"God made some people with homosexual desire. If they're burning with lust, they are not allowed to fulfill that desire"

By saying "God made them that way", but they are not allowed to fulfill that desire like heterosexual folks, you are implying that God basically set up some people for failure. That's the illogical (or scary) part.

[RevDanBurns]

Originally Posted by bishoph

my good friend,It seems to me that you have bought the LGBT hype....there are NO studies that "prove" some people are born gay.... in fact quite the opposite is true.

Not quite. Romans 1:26-27 refers to people who make a willful choice to change their sexual preference. Those people need God and prayer to turn from their sin.

"Born that way" is a lie. Even Peter Tatchell, a well known human rights advocate and proponent for LGBT rights, points out the fallacy of this falsehood: http://www.petertatchell.net/lgbt_ri...ne/borngay.htm .

Look, the entire point I was making was Manny's comments were intended to degrade and dehumanize. Just for sexual sins. To say we should be taking the Living Water to them from the Well of Life and not casting stones, well...I will defend that view to my dying day. It's not intended to excuse sin. But Paul's plan for them to be saved and stay free of temptation is to get married to a WOMAN (let's make that clear...God would never recognize gay marriage in holy matrimony) or stay single such as he chose to. That's not implying Paul was gay because he chose to stay single.

And that's it, really. I didn't see anything about Christ's message of salvation in anything Manny was saying. In fact, if anything, he's given the LGBT community more power to further their agenda. What he said is not a good thing and we, as a Church, should not hold him up as an example of what a Christian is.

http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns...a-hatchet-job/