Adultery vs Fornication

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Antipas

You guys have made this so complicated.

God specifically states that He hates divorce.
It then stands to reason that if God hates divorce, remarriage after divorce cannot be God's will.

Does it happen? Yes.
Can one be forgiven for their part in a divorce? Yes.
Can one be forgiven for remarrying after having been divorced? Yes.
But was any of this God's will? No.

Divorce and remarriage misses the mark. It is sin.

God forgives the contrite.
He knows we are but flesh.

Incorrect. God says He hates "putting away". God Himself is a divorcee, He divorced Samaria and the House of Israel.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Antipas

You guys have made this so complicated.

God specifically states that He hates divorce.
It then stands to reason that if God hates divorce, remarriage after divorce cannot be God's will.

Does it happen? Yes.
Can one be forgiven for their part in a divorce? Yes.
Can one be forgiven for remarrying after having been divorced? Yes.
But was any of this God's will? No.

Divorce and remarriage misses the mark. It is sin.

God forgives the contrite.
He knows we are but flesh.

Αmen you are right brother. But the question is , what is supposed to do a second time married couple that were not Christians when they married?
(for a Christian that backslides and re-marry and then repents, we know that Repentance means also to leave the sinful relationship otherwise is not repetance.) Is like i go to rob a bank and then ia "repent" but i keep the money so the question is for them that did not knew that this was sin.
Thanks

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Incorrect. God says He hates "putting away". God Himself is a divorcee, He divorced Samaria and the House of Israel.

1) sorry, if you read the thread you will find that
"putting away" is the act of divorce,. In New Testament there is only Putting away (no divorce)

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.


2) as for the statement :

God Himself is a divorcee, He divorced Samaria and the House of Israel.

...is a sin!
God has only One wife! And this is the Church. God forgives His wife "for I am married toi the backslider" (Thanks to God) . Thats why Marriage is so serious in the eyes of God, because is a type of the relasionship between Jesus and His Church:
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
(and now dont try ti tel me that God abandoned the Church of Israel and married a second wife...that is not thruth. We (Gentiles) entered to the olive tree: For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree
God has only one wife and all the saints will be in the marriage. amen.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by peter83

1) sorry, if you read the thread you will find that
"putting away" is the act of divorce,. In New Testament there is only Putting away (no divorce)

If a man will put away his wife, he is to give her a bill of divorce. Thus proving put away (apoluo) means the act of sending the woman away, out of the household, and divorce is the legal document that is to accompany the putting away. Therefore, the two are not identical nor are they the same thing. Apoluo and apostasion.

To say "in the new testament there is only putting away, no divorce" is incorrect. The law established the bill of divorce (apostasion), and by faith we establish the law (Romans 3:31).

The "hardness of your hearts" has to do with Israel's tendency to disobey God. It is not really about men being mean or unloving to their wives. Which wouldn't even make sense, that God would tell Moses to allow men to put away their wives because the men were unloving to their wives? At the most, it would indicate that God provided relief to the woman who was put away by requiring an apostasion or bill of divorcement so she could lawfully remarry.

Moses said a man could put away his wife because he found some UNCLEANNESS in her (Deuteronomy 24:1). That means there was some fornication found. Fornication covers all the forbidden unions (including premarital or extramarital sex, immorality). Jesus affirmed that as a valid reason for putting away, just like Moses said. He affirmed the Law, He did not abolish it.

From the beginning it was not so, because Eve was exactly the proper wife for Adam, there was no forbidden union involved.

2) as for the statement : ...is a sin!
God has only One wife! And this is the Church. God forgives His wife "for I am married toi the backslider" (Thanks to God) . Thats why Marriage is so serious in the eyes of God, because is a type of the relasionship between Jesus and His Church:
...
(and now dont try ti tel me that God abandoned the Church of Israel and married a second wife...that is not thruth. We (Gentiles) entered to the olive tree: For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree
God has only one wife and all the saints will be in the marriage. amen.

Jeremiah 3:
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

God divorced the House of Israel. It plainly says that. The chapter goes on to show God calling her to return to her Husband. Yet, God's law forbids a divorced woman, who marries another, to return to her former husband. For, the law has power over them as long as one of them lives, but if the (first) husband dies, she is freed from the law of her husband.

So, the Husband DIED (on the cross), and rose again so that she could be married to Him. Likewise, she DIED (in baptism) and rises in newness of life, to make certain the lawfulness of her return to her former Husband.

God has one wife, ISRAEL, with whom He has made a new covenant (Hebrews 8). The divorced House of Israel became "gentiles" (Hosea 1:6-9) but have been reunited with the House of Judah and been brought back to God through Christ (Hosea 1:10-11, Romans 9:24-26).

[Esaias]

Moreover, in John 4, Jesus said the Samaritan woman had five husbands, and was currently with a man not her husband.

Was she a five-time widow? Or had she been divorced five times?

If she had been divorced five times, why did Jesus say she has had five husbands, instead of saying she had one husband followed by five adulteries?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

Αmen you are right brother. But the question is , what is supposed to do a second time married couple that were not Christians when they married?
(for a Christian that backslides and re-marry and then repents, we know that Repentance means also to leave the sinful relationship otherwise is not repetance.) Is like i go to rob a bank and then ia "repent" but i keep the money so the question is for them that did not knew that this was sin.
Thanks

Sorry, but Paul never inserted what you espouse in his admonition of I Corinthians 7. In fact, for the returning backslider to leave even his second marriage would be to VIOLATE Paul's instructions of Christians not initiating a departure.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Moreover, in John 4, Jesus said the Samaritan woman had five husbands, and was currently with a man not her husband.

Was she a five-time widow? Or had she been divorced five times?

If she had been divorced five times, why did Jesus say she has had five husbands, instead of saying she had one husband followed by five adulteries?

All your responses were accurate, for the most part. But Peter83 uses the "Spirit" to guide him, not logic, reason, and sound hermeneutics. If you really have the Spirit, you'll see he is right. hahahaha

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If a man will put away his wife, he is to give her a bill of divorce. Thus proving put away (apoluo) means the act of sending the woman away, out of the household, and divorce is the legal document that is to accompany the putting away. Therefore, the two are not identical nor are they the same thing. Apoluo and apostasion.

To say "in the new testament there is only putting away, no divorce" is incorrect. The law established the bill of divorce (apostasion), and by faith we establish the law (Romans 3:31).

The "hardness of your hearts" has to do with Israel's tendency to disobey God. It is not really about men being mean or unloving to their wives. Which wouldn't even make sense, that God would tell Moses to allow men to put away their wives because the men were unloving to their wives? At the most, it would indicate that God provided relief to the woman who was put away by requiring an apostasion or bill of divorcement so she could lawfully remarry.

Moses said a man could put away his wife because he found some UNCLEANNESS in her (Deuteronomy 24:1). That means there was some fornication found. Fornication covers all the forbidden unions (including premarital or extramarital sex, immorality). Jesus affirmed that as a valid reason for putting away, just like Moses said. He affirmed the Law, He did not abolish it.

From the beginning it was not so, because Eve was exactly the proper wife for Adam, there was no forbidden union involved.

Jeremiah 3:
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

God divorced the House of Israel. It plainly says that. The chapter goes on to show God calling her to return to her Husband. Yet, God's law forbids a divorced woman, who marries another, to return to her former husband. For, the law has power over them as long as one of them lives, but if the (first) husband dies, she is freed from the law of her husband.

So, the Husband DIED (on the cross), and rose again so that she could be married to Him. Likewise, she DIED (in baptism) and rises in newness of life, to make certain the lawfulness of her return to her former Husband.

God has one wife, ISRAEL, with whom He has made a new covenant (Hebrews 8). The divorced House of Israel became "gentiles" (Hosea 1:6-9) but have been reunited with the House of Judah and been brought back to God through Christ (Hosea 1:10-11, Romans 9:24-26).

Ηι my Greek friend. how are you?
1) Yes Moses permits the Old testament to give a divorce for the reason you suggest very good. But in the eyes of God there is just putting away.
In the new testament there is not mentioned the word divorce. Why? Because from the beginning was not so. Now we go back to the purpose of "being one flesh" ao what God joined together let man do depart.
2)When Jews asked Jesus, were asking about the reasons of one should put away. And of course when Jesus said "except for fornication" does not mean adultery! Adultery or find the woman non virgin was punishment to death! So He did not mean that this is a reason for putting away! (for that was a reason to stone until death) 3)for the dicorce Israel thing ,i dont want even to sepak about...:
Jer.3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.1
Jer.4:1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the LORD, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.
Zach.1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.

Is.62:4 [I]Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.1 2 \
Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

4)Now please ,tell me. Do you be;ieve there is a reason to divorve and yet not be guilty of your wife`s adultery?
Or do you believe that ther eis any reason that permits us to marry a second times?
Thanks.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Originalist

All your responses were accurate, for the most part. But Peter83 uses the "Spirit" to guide him, not logic, reason, and sound hermeneutics. If you really have the Spirit, you'll see he is right. hahahaha

Logic[/I]: "Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Reason: "32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. "
hermeneutics : "2 Peter.1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So my beloved brother...5 rules of interpretation :1) only the Holy Spirit will help you! 2) and ofcourse there is not need to interpret ,spiritualise etc. were the Commands are just straight and understandable.
3) you dont take appart any verse, scripture is not a colection of verses. You read in the content and 4) then you must compoare what the others scriptures are telling us and finaly
5) The only way to understand the above and the only way to probably mixed up the Word (yes the Spirit is putting all to the blender and gives to your mouth the Word synthetically..i have verse for that too )
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So what i am telling you is "foolishness unto you"! And that is what makes me continue! (seriously i dont want to challenge you, but if , i say IF you were driven by the Spirit ,then even if you not agree you should have a Holy Fear..not speaking like an contentious.
watch the conversation nd if you have something serious and Holy from the Word join us, but if you continue be contentious ..please dont do,that is sin.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

Logic[/I]: "Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Reason: "32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. "
hermeneutics : "2 Peter.1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The emboldened statement above proves you have no idea what hermeneutics are.



So my beloved brother...5 rules of interpretation :1) only the Holy Spirit will help you! 2) and ofcourse there is not need to interpret ,spiritualise etc. were the Commands are just straight and understandable.
3) you dont take appart any verse, scripture is not a colection of verses. You read in the content and 4) then you must compoare what the others scriptures are telling us and finaly
5) The only way to understand the above and the only way to probably mixed up the Word (yes the Spirit is putting all to the blender and gives to your mouth the Word synthetically..i have verse for that too )
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So what i am telling you is "foolishness unto you"! And that is what makes me continue! (seriously i dont want to challenge you, but if , i say IF you were driven by the Spirit ,then even if you not agree you should have a Holy Fear..not speaking like an contentious.
watch the conversation nd if you have something serious and Holy from the Word join us, but if you continue be contentious ..please dont do,that is sin.