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04-18-2019, 06:28 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,001
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Burning Christian churches
Prominent settler rabbi, Shlomo Aviner, ruled today (Tuesday) that burning churches outside of the Land of Yisrael “isn’t our job for now”, but as for the Holy Land, “the issue is more complicated”. Aviner seemed to leave the question of burning churches in the Holy Land to the questioner.
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Aviner, who draws a public salary as the rabbi of the major settlement Beit El and is also the rabbi of a prestigious yeshiva (Ateret Yerushaliam, formerly Ateret Cohanim), is considered to be one most important rabbis of the religious nationalist sector. He is a prolific writer, having published more than 200 books in several languages. Aviner is also considered a pioneer of the SHUT-SMS phenomenon, by which fans send the rabbi a question via SMS message (and more recently, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp), and Aviner gives back a short reply. Aviner is one of the more popular SHUT-SMS rabbis because he tends to answer every question, even trollish ones (I’m speaking from experience here).
Today, after the fire in Notre Dame Cathedral, Aviner was asked the following question:
“The great Christian Church in Paris is on fire. Should we feel sorry for that, or should we rejoice, as it [the cathedral] is idolatry, which is a mitzvah to burn?”
The questioner is here referring to the Halachic ruling that churches are considered idolatry, and should be destroyed.
Aviner replied as follows:
“This isn’t our job for now. There is no mitzvah to seek out churches abroad and burn them down. In our holy land, however, the issue is more complicated. Indeed, the Satmar Rabbi noted one of his arguments against immigrating to Israel, that here it is indeed a mitzvah to burn churches; and by not doing so, those [immigrating to Israel] are committing a sin. Yet Rabbi Menachem Mendel Kasher, in his book ‘The Great Period’, rejected the Satmar Rabbi’s words, citing a midrash, forbidding burning [churches], since if we burn, we’ll have to rebuild, and it’s a greater sin to rebuild [a church] than leave it standing. [Here Aviner cites his own book vs. the Satmar Rabbi] That church in Paris, too, will surely be rebuilt.”
Aviner is touching here gingerly on a hot issue (pardon the pun) in his sector: Should churches be burned? Several churches have been burnt in Israel in the last few years, and the police have been spectacularly useless in capturing the arsonists. In several cases, the arson was accompanied by slogans familiar from ‘price tag’ attacks in the West Bank (mostly along the lines of Jewish vengeance). Four years ago, Lehava leader Benzi Gopstein, asked whether he supported church burnings, said “of course, what’s the question?” His words caused uproar. Later Gopstein was indicted on incitement to violence charges, but church burning wasn’t one of them.
Aviner, and other Orthodox rabbis, are in a bind here. Several immensely important rabbinic rulers, most prominent among them Maimonides, ruled that churches are places of idolatry and ought to be destroyed. The rulings are very clear. However, to support those rulings today would lead to violence, probably to a rise in anti-Semitism, and will jeopardize the alliance between the settler movement and the evangelical movement. There is also a chance of getting prosecuted for incitement for hatred, which is a crime in Israel – but then again, the law has a special exemption for “religious studies”, and the prosecution has been very leery of prosecuting rabbis for hate speech, making “religious discussions” the prime way of legally-protected incitement. https://mondoweiss.net/2019/04/mitzv...s-complicated/
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04-18-2019, 06:38 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,001
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Re: Burning Christian churches
So, according to Judaism, it is a command to burn Christian church buildings in the land of Israel. It is not a command to burn them in gentiles countries for now. Which means at some point it WILL be a duty for Jews to burn churches outside the land of Israel.
Meanwhile, according to shariah law of Islam, Muslims are expected NOT to destroy either churches or synagogues:
"According to the Verse of Surat al Hajj (22:40) Muslims shouldn't destroy houses of worship or religious places of other Religions (Ahl-Al-Kitab to be correct)....
Legally, all places of worship were to be protected and the destruction or forced acquisition prohibited as long as the covenant was held. Muslims destroying churches was as much an exception as building new ones, from the covenant of Umer (ra) - if and only if the covenant actually stipulated a ban on building new churches...
https://islam.stackexchange.com/ques...ther-religions
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04-18-2019, 06:49 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,001
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Re: Burning Christian churches
Meanwhile (apparently Muslims don't follow their Quran):
In France, two churches are desecrated every day on average. According to PI-News, a German news site, 1,063 attacks on Christian churches or symbols (crucifixes, icons, statues) were registered in France in 2018. This represents a 17% increase compared to the previous year (2017), when 878 attacks were registered — meaning that such attacks are only going from bad to worse.
Among some of the recent desecrations in France, the following took place in just February and March:
Vandals plundered Notre-Dame des Enfants Church in Nîmes and used human excrement to draw a cross there; consecrated bread was found thrown outside among garbage.
The Saint-Nicolas Church in Houilles was vandalized on three separate occasions in February; a 19th century statue of the Virgin Mary, regarded as "irreparable," was "completely pulverized," said a clergyman; and a hanging cross was thrown to the floor.
Vandals desecrated and smashed crosses and statues at Saint-Alain Cathedral in Lavaur, and mangled the arms of a statue of a crucified Christ in a mocking manner. In addition, an altar cloth was burned.
Arsonists torched the Church of St. Sulpice in Paris soon after midday mass on Sunday, March 17.
Similar reports are coming out of Germany. Four separate churches were vandalized and/or torched in March alone. "In this country," PI-News explained, "there is a creeping war against everything that symbolizes Christianity: attacks on mountain-summit crosses, on sacred statues by the wayside, on churches... and recently also on cemeteries."
Who is primarily behind these ongoing and increasing attacks on churches in Europe? The same German report offers a hint: "Crosses are broken, altars smashed, Bibles set on fire, baptismal fonts overturned, and the church doors smeared with Islamic expressions like 'Allahu Akbar.'"
Another German report from November 11, 2017 noted that in the Alps and Bavaria alone, around 200 churches were attacked and many crosses broken: "Police are currently dealing with church desecrations again and again. The perpetrators are often youthful rioters with a migration background." Elsewhere they are described as "young Islamists." https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1...hes-vandalized
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04-18-2019, 06:56 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,001
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Re: Burning Christian churches
Fox News tries several times to cover up recurring attacks on Christian churches in France: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/fo...ches-in-france
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04-18-2019, 09:06 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,648
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Re: Burning Christian churches
It will come here. They caught a guy in New York the other day entering a Catholic Church with several gas cans.
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04-19-2019, 03:37 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 46
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Re: Burning Christian churches
It's not good. But considering the Inquisition and "search and destroy" burning at the stake of suspected Jews like Servetus it seems like whenever religion gets mixed in with a political system they go through the same routines.
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04-26-2019, 07:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: Burning Christian churches
No one knows exactly how the fire started in the Cathedral of Notre Dame. But Quasimodo has a hunch. lol
Last edited by Antipas; 04-26-2019 at 07:46 PM.
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