Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08-12-2018, 01:37 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,009
Re: Demons and the believer

And, perusing Adam Clarke's commentary on Daniel, I find this:
Daniel 10:13

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me - I think it would go far to make a legend or a precarious tale of this important place to endeavor to maintain that either a good or evil Angel Is intended here. Cyrus alone was the prince of Persia, and God had destined him to be the deliverer of his people; but there were some matters, of which we are not informed, that caused him to hesitate for some time. Fearing, probably, the greatness of the work, and not being fully satisfied of his ability to execute it, he therefore for a time resisted the secret inspirations which God had sent him. The opposition might be in reference to the building of the temple.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-12-2018, 01:39 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,009
Re: Demons and the believer

Quote:
Originally Posted by berkeley View Post
This thread proves that we can prefer our preconceived notions over what the text actually states.
Yes, that seems to be a common problem. I think everyone is susceptible to falling into that trap, but it is far from necessary. We just need to be willing to let the Bible be the sole authority, and all our ideas conformed to it. I personally have no vested interest in any belief, only in finding and believing what the Bible says is truth. Because the Bible IS truth. But taking that route will often put you outside polite company.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-12-2018, 02:14 PM
Evang.Benincasa's Avatar
Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood too


 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 39,122
Re: Demons and the believer

Quote:
Originally Posted by berkeley View Post
Esaias is wrong? But the only one that made his case.

Can you show me where he is wrong?
__________________
“Burn the Boats!!!” — Hernan Cortes
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-12-2018, 02:20 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,009
Re: Demons and the believer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Can you show me where he is wrong?
I think he's saying "you guys are saying he's wrong but he's the only one who actually made a case for his position?"
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-12-2018, 02:41 PM
Evang.Benincasa's Avatar
Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood too


 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 39,122
Re: Demons and the believer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I think he's saying "you guys are saying he's wrong but he's the only one who actually made a case for his position?"
Sorry berkeley. My apologies.

OK, then, can anyone who believes Esaias is wrong show me where he is wrong?
__________________
“Burn the Boats!!!” — Hernan Cortes
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:00 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,009
Re: Demons and the believer

Also, it seems that this concept is somewhat new to some folks, who are gasping for breath and clutching their pearls too tightly and exclaiming "What!? You are saying we are fighting people, when it clearly says we wrestle not against flesh and blood!!!!"

Paul is using an analogy drawn from classic Greek gymnasmata, namely wrestling (the original mma). In a wrestling match, one is pitted against "flesh and blood" in an actual physical contest involving physical strength and skill. Paul is saying that is not we are doing, which every Christian from Dan to Beersheba and beyond would know, since no Christians were actually involved in physical altercations with anyone as a matter of course, in the sense of some kind of wrestling match.

In contrast to wrestling with Fred Hexensmasher, what we are doing is wrestling (metaphorically speaking) with the "powers that be". Again, it's a metaphor (wrestling, that is), because no Christians were physically assaulting judges, magistrates, high priests, etc. Rather, the conflict between Christianity and the world (kosmos, world order, the "system") is an ideological conflict. Our armour and weaponry are specifically designed to deal with the opposing forces of Roman and Jewish religious and governmental power structures. Those weapons and armour are not physical, they do not include ballistas and siege engines. Rather, they consist in righteousness, salvation, faith, the Word of God proclaimed under the anointing, prayer in the Spirit using the Word of God, promoting the preaching of the Gospel everywhere and anywhere and to everyone and anyone.

Thus, the apostolic church "turned the world upside down" in their day.

Nowadays, we have bought the charismatic silliness, which is nothing but superstition, that fancies all our spiritual warfare is some kind of Star Wars fantasy saga. People do "prayer walks" and claim their cities, "tearing down demonic strongholds", they go to courthouses and find the Masonic dedicatory plaques on the wall and anoint them with oil and pray over them, they "name it and claim it" and proclaim that the demonic powers of Satan's kingdom have been broken over their city...

...and yet here we are, rapidly flushing down the drain as a society faster than warp speed. There might be a connection... Namely, that Christians have largely abandoned the actual spiritual warfare they have been called to engage in and exchanged it for religious LARPing that is about as useful as a ham sandwich at a bar mitzvah. Playing Walter Mitty in an Ursula Leguin trilogy is not what we have been called to do.

Rather, we have been called to declare the purposes and will of God to the powers that be (Eph 3:10) precisely because they are in rebellion to God (Psalm 2:1-3). Christ has all authority in heaven and in earth (Matthew 28:18) and the mission of the church is to disciple the nations (vs 19-20). This creates a contest or conflict between the Gospel Truth and the powers that be. Those powers that be are capable of being overthrown, not by armed might, but by the power of God working through the church to convert souls.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:05 PM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
Covenant Apostolic


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 8,754
Re: Demons and the believer

principalities means those who have left their first estate?

ἀρχή archḗ, ar-khay'; from G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank):—beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

STRONGS NT 746: ἀρχή
ἀρχή, ἀρχῆς, ἡ (from Homer down), in the Sept. mostly equivalent to רֹאשׁ, רֵאֹשִׁית, תְּחִלָּה;
1. beginning, origin;
a. used absolutely, of the beginning of all things: ἐν ἀρχή, John 1:1f (Genesis 1:1); ἀπ' ἀρχῆς, Matthew 19:4 (with which cf. Xenophon, mem. 1, 4, 5 ὁ ἐξ ἀρχῆς ποιῶν ἀνθρώπους), Matthew 19:8; John 8:44; 1 John 1:1; 1 John 2:13; 1 John 3:8; more fully ἀπ' ἀρχῆς κτίσεως or κόσμου, Matthew 24:21; Mark 10:6; Mark 13:19; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (where L (Tr marginal reading WH marginal reading) ἀπαρχήν, which see); 2 Peter 3:4; κατ' ἀρχάς, Hebrews 1:10 (Psalm

************

Jude 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

***********


2Co 5:2 - Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,


Jde 1:6 - And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Last edited by Amanah; 08-12-2018 at 03:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:14 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,009
Re: Demons and the believer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
principalities means those who have left their first estate?

ἀρχή archḗ, ar-khay'; from G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank):—beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

STRONGS NT 746: ἀρχή
ἀρχή, ἀρχῆς, ἡ (from Homer down), in the Sept. mostly equivalent to רֹאשׁ, רֵאֹשִׁית, תְּחִלָּה;
1. beginning, origin;
a. used absolutely, of the beginning of all things: ἐν ἀρχή, John 1:1f (Genesis 1:1); ἀπ' ἀρχῆς, Matthew 19:4 (with which cf. Xenophon, mem. 1, 4, 5 ὁ ἐξ ἀρχῆς ποιῶν ἀνθρώπους), Matthew 19:8; John 8:44; 1 John 1:1; 1 John 2:13; 1 John 3:8; more fully ἀπ' ἀρχῆς κτίσεως or κόσμου, Matthew 24:21; Mark 10:6; Mark 13:19; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (where L (Tr marginal reading WH marginal reading) ἀπαρχήν, which see); 2 Peter 3:4; κατ' ἀρχάς, Hebrews 1:10 (Psalm
By "first estate" it means the pre-eminent estate, an estate being a holding, interest, jurisdiction, or purview. An archon is a ruler, a "chief" or "princeps". The word prince comes from princeps which means the Prime, or First, as in the one in front, the leader. So principalities are leaders, chiefs, rulers, princes, etc. As well as their respective jurisdictions or areas of control and dominion.

Black's Law Dictionary:
Estate
1. The interest which any one has in lands, or in any other subject ofproperty. 1 Brest. Est. 20. And see Van Itensselaer v. Boucher, 5 Denio (N. Y.) 40; Beallv. Holmes, 6 liar. & J. (Md.) 208; Mul- ford v. Le Franc. 26 Cal. 103; Robertson v.VanCleave, 120 Ind. 217. 22 N. E. 809. 29 N. E 781. 15 L. R. A. 68; Ball v. Chadwick,46 111. 31; Cutts v. Com., 2 Mass. 289; Jackson v. Parker, 9 Cow. (N. Y.) 81. An estate in lands, tenements, and hereditaments signifies such interest as the tenant has therein.2 Bl. Comm. 103. The condition or circumstance in which the owner stands with regard to his property. 2 Crabb, Real Prop, p. 2,
Webster's 1828:
Estate
ESTA'TE,noun [Latin status, from sto, to stand. The roots stb, std and stg, have nearly the same signification, to set, to fix. It is probable that the Latin sto is contracted from stad, as it forms steti.

1. In a general sense, fixedness; a fixed condition; now generally written and pronounced state.

She cast us headlong from our high estate

2. Condition or circumstances of any person or thing, whether high or low. Luke 1:48.

3. Rank; quality.

Who hath not heard of the greatness of your estate?

4. In law, the interest, or quantity of interest, a man has in lands, tenements, or other effects. Estates are real or personal. Real estate consists in lands or freeholds, which descent to heirs; personal estate consists in chattels or movables, which go to executors and administrators. There are also estates for life, for years, at will, etc.

5. Fortune; possessions; property in general. He is a man of a great estate He left his estate unincumbered.

6. The general business or interest of government; hence, a political body; a commonwealth; a republic. But in this sense, we now use State.

Estates, in the plural, dominions; possessions of a prince.

1. Orders or classes of men in society or government. Herod made a supper for his chief estates. Mark 6:21.

In Great Britain, the estates of the realm are the king, lords and commons; or rather the lords and commons.
Webster's 1828:
Principality
PRINCIPAL'ITY, noun

1. Sovereignty; supreme power.

2. A prince; one invested with sovereignty. Titus 3:1.

3. The territory of a prince; or the country which gives title to a prince; as the principality of Wales.

4. Superiority; predominance. [Little used.]

5. In Scripture, royal state or attire. Jeremiah 13:1.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:16 PM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
Covenant Apostolic


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 8,754
Re: Demons and the believer

Colossians 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:18 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,009
Re: Demons and the believer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
5. In Scripture, royal state or attire. Jeremiah 13:1.
I do not understand the reference here, it must be a typo?

Ah, just looked at my hardcopy of the Dictionary, the reference is simply Jeremiah xiii.

Looking through Jeremiah 13, the proper reference is as follows:
Jeremiah 13:18 Say unto the king and to the queen, Humble yourselves, sit down: for your principalities shall come down, even the crown of your glory.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's a Believer? thephnxman Deep Waters 0 04-13-2016 09:23 AM
All Demons Have Goatees Pneuman Fellowship Hall 62 10-31-2013 07:40 PM
All Demons Have Cooties Praxeas Fellowship Hall 1 10-28-2013 10:14 PM
The Believer And The Law. Scott Hutchinson Fellowship Hall 1 05-30-2009 03:54 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.