Carnality in the church

[SDG]

Now when you say Nakedness ... do you mean physical ... or our lack of love?

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

Am I just a block head, or is there a ridiculous amount of carnality in the church today? Thinks that would have made granny weep before the Lord are now shouted from the housetop. We have a church generation that now thinks its ok to entertain themself with violence, and sexual innuendos. Hello! Can't we figure out that when we take this garbage into our mind and heart, it changes us, and transforms us more into the image of the world?

I was amazed to have someone recently ask me, "does everything have to be about the spiritual". And why wouldn't we want it to all be about the one that gave his all for us? Are we so blinded by the world that we can no longer see what is happening to us?

You are not a blockhead: there is a ridiculous amount of carnality in the Church today (well, actually, any amount of carnality is "a ridiculous amount").

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

Am I just a block head, or is there a ridiculous amount of carnality in the church today? Thinks that would have made granny weep before the Lord are now shouted from the housetop. We have a church generation that now thinks its ok to entertain themself with violence, and sexual innuendos. Hello! Can't we figure out that when we take this garbage into our mind and heart, it changes us, and transforms us more into the image of the world?

I was amazed to have someone recently ask me, "does everything have to be about the spiritual". And why wouldn't we want it to all be about the one that gave his all for us? Are we so blinded by the world that we can no longer see what is happening to us?

I have heard Christian cynics say about folks " they are so heavenly minded they are no earthly good". I choose to say rather that "if they aren't heavenly minded the ARE no earthly good!"

Originally Posted by philjones

I have heard Christian cynics say about folks " they are so heavenly minded they are no earthly good". I choose to say rather that "if they aren't heavenly minded the ARE no earthly good!"

To be heavenly minded is of the greatest earthly good.

Originally Posted by Ronzo

One man's "carnal" is another man's "super spiritual"

Usually detemined by what spirit the second man is of!

Originally Posted by philjones

Usually detemined by what spirit the second man is of!

Exactly.

[Michael The Disciple]

Carnality can be accounted to several things.

a. People do not in reality have the Holy Spirit.

This is a lot of the problem. They cannot be spiritual without the Spirit.

b. Churches dont teach and encourage Jesus admonitions about utter loyalty to him and his word.

Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

This is mocked and peppered with resistance.

There is no reason to think people will forsake all and follow Christ if they are told its not essential to enter the Kingdom.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Carnality can be accounted to several things.

a. People do not in reality have the Holy Spirit.

This is a lot of the problem. They cannot be spiritual without the Spirit.

b. Churches dont teach and encourage Jesus admonitions about utter loyalty to him and his word.

Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

This is mocked and peppered with resistance.

There is no reason to think people will forsake all and follow Christ if they are told its not essential to enter the Kingdom.

It's much like what someone said to me in another forum...

"You're saying that God expects us to meet His absolute, perfect and holy standard, even in the midst of our human imperfections! Friend, that is utterly impossible. If that were possible, then Jesus' blood on Calvary was not necessary.

No one is saying we get a "pass." I am only stating reality here. You have every right to state that your opinion is the right one and that you know it's right and that your interpretation is the right one. I disagree with your conclusion which, in my opinion, is way off base. Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are and was without sin. We, however, are not Jesus and will NEVER meet His standard on our own, in our flesh. That is what imputed righteousness is for. It "takes up the slack" if you will when we fall short of God's perfection.

The only way we are accountable to God for meeting His standard of perfection is when we trust in HIS righteousness. It is the ONLY way for us to measure up. That is not an excuse for licentiousness or sinful behavior, but is the only reality there is unless you subscribe to the doctrine of "sinless perfection." If so, then I know where you're coming from and it still doesn't fit with reality in the life of ANYONE I have ever known or met, including those who preach it."

It is the wickedness of trying to set the word of God apart from so-called "reality" (as if to say that the Bible does not represent reality) that is at the core of the carnality you describe.

For the record, I do believe that "God expects us to meet His absolute, perfect and holy standard, even in the midst of our human imperfections." Jesus made this clear when He said to be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect and when Peter quoted the Old Testament in saying we're to be holy as God is holy. The scriptures are clear that we are accountable for the standard God set forth. Does this mean that humans will ever achieve sinless perfection here in this present world? I don't think so. But that does not absolve us of our accountability to God for meeting the standard He set forth for us. It is a carnal mindset that tries to use our humanity as an excuse for falling short (see Romans 3:23).

Originally Posted by Chan

It's much like what someone said to me in another forum...

"You're saying that God expects us to meet His absolute, perfect and holy standard, even in the midst of our human imperfections! Friend, that is utterly impossible. If that were possible, then Jesus' blood on Calvary was not necessary.

No one is saying we get a "pass." I am only stating reality here. You have every right to state that your opinion is the right one and that you know it's right and that your interpretation is the right one. I disagree with your conclusion which, in my opinion, is way off base. Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are and was without sin. We, however, are not Jesus and will NEVER meet His standard on our own, in our flesh. That is what imputed righteousness is for. It "takes up the slack" if you will when we fall short of God's perfection.

The only way we are accountable to God for meeting His standard of perfection is when we trust in HIS righteousness. It is the ONLY way for us to measure up. That is not an excuse for licentiousness or sinful behavior, but is the only reality there is unless you subscribe to the doctrine of "sinless perfection." If so, then I know where you're coming from and it still doesn't fit with reality in the life of ANYONE I have ever known or met, including those who preach it."

It is the wickedness of trying to set the word of God apart from so-called "reality" (as if to say that the Bible does not represent reality) that is at the core of the carnality you describe.

For the record, I do believe that "God expects us to meet His absolute, perfect and holy standard, even in the midst of our human imperfections." Jesus made this clear when He said to be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect and when Peter quoted the Old Testament in saying we're to be holy as God is holy. The scriptures are clear that we are accountable for the standard God set forth. Does this mean that humans will ever achieve sinless perfection here in this present world? I don't think so. But that does not absolve us of our accountability to God for meeting the standard He set forth for us. It is a carnal mindset that tries to use our humanity as an excuse for falling short (see Romans 3:23).

Good post.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Chan

It's much like what someone said to me in another forum...

"You're saying that God expects us to meet His absolute, perfect and holy standard, even in the midst of our human imperfections! Friend, that is utterly impossible. If that were possible, then Jesus' blood on Calvary was not necessary.

No one is saying we get a "pass." I am only stating reality here. You have every right to state that your opinion is the right one and that you know it's right and that your interpretation is the right one. I disagree with your conclusion which, in my opinion, is way off base. Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are and was without sin. We, however, are not Jesus and will NEVER meet His standard on our own, in our flesh. That is what imputed righteousness is for. It "takes up the slack" if you will when we fall short of God's perfection.

The only way we are accountable to God for meeting His standard of perfection is when we trust in HIS righteousness. It is the ONLY way for us to measure up. That is not an excuse for licentiousness or sinful behavior, but is the only reality there is unless you subscribe to the doctrine of "sinless perfection." If so, then I know where you're coming from and it still doesn't fit with reality in the life of ANYONE I have ever known or met, including those who preach it."

It is the wickedness of trying to set the word of God apart from so-called "reality" (as if to say that the Bible does not represent reality) that is at the core of the carnality you describe.

For the record, I do believe that "God expects us to meet His absolute, perfect and holy standard, even in the midst of our human imperfections." Jesus made this clear when He said to be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect and when Peter quoted the Old Testament in saying we're to be holy as God is holy. The scriptures are clear that we are accountable for the standard God set forth. Does this mean that humans will ever achieve sinless perfection here in this present world? I don't think so. But that does not absolve us of our accountability to God for meeting the standard He set forth for us. It is a carnal mindset that tries to use our humanity as an excuse for falling short (see Romans 3:23).

The key to the bolded is that you stated that we will never meet His standards in our flesh. You are correct.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

As long as we are living in the flesh we cannot measure up.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

But since we are to live after the Spirit now that we have been born again, we can "BY THE SPIRIT" measure up. The sad fact is though, that we walk more in the flesh than we do in the spirit because of our lack of discipline, therefore we make bumper stickers that say "I'm not perfect, just forgiven".