This is not an attempt to debate anything, but just a thought to share that I preached here last Sunday.
The cross is called a TREE in a few New Testament scriptures. Jesus was said to have hanged on a tree when He was crucified. And a thought came to me that the two crosses where we see the two thieves crucified on either side of the Lord show the two trees of the garden of Eden. The Tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and devil. And we know the enemy urged the woman towards the false tree while God willed they eat of the Tree of life. So one could say the message from the impenitent thief's cross stands as the message of the false tree and false cross, and the message portrayed by the penitent thief's cross stands as the true message of the cross of Jesus.
One could say we all have a cross, but it is only one of the two represented by the thieves.
So, here are some thoughts on the next post. What are your thoughts?
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
During the crucifixion, there is something that the rulers said as they challenged Jesus that was mirrored by the impenitent thief: If Jesus was the Christ He should save himself.
What is interesting is that they associated salvation with the Messiah/Christ. But it was a salvation from the death of the cross. Now, isn't that quite telling?!
The soldiers, being secular in occupation and not emphasizing spiritual issues, did not refer to Jesus as Christ, but as alleged King of the Jews. And their thoughts of a King did indeed involve salvation as well. Jesus should save Himself from death if he is King of Jews.
The impenitent thief repeated the mockery of the rulers and claimed that if Jesus was Christ, then salvation of Himself and the thieves with Him should occur.
Only the penitent thief had it right. While the rulers and soldiers and impenitent thief associated salvation of the Messiah and King of Israel with salvation from the death of the cross, the penitent thief accepted the death of the cross. He knew he deserved death, and knew Jesus was innocent.
But what really excited me was that all the doubters could not comprehend a Kingdom being claimed by Jesus in light of His dying on the cross, as though they asked, "How can He claim to save and have a kingdom if He is dying and has never yet sat on a throne?" If he was going to have salvation or a kingdom, the last thing on his plate would be this death of the cross. And the PENITENT THIEF still believed in His kingdom even when he saw Jesus dying, and knew they would both die that day. He therefore asked Jesus to remember him when He comes into His Kingdom! He was able to see beyond the death of the cross and still believe Jesus indeed had a Kingdom and was both King and Messiah!
However much that penitent thief lack in spiritual awareness of Jesus, he had the basics correct! Jesus was innocent (like the sacrifice required for sin). The thief knew he deserved death, making no attempt to avoid it. In fact the penitent thief was so shocked that the impenitent thief had no fear of God in mocking things spiritual while he was ready to die himself and face His Creator!
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
But what is really a blessing is to see that the false cross is exposed for being a salvation that avoids the death of the cross. Like the knowledge of good and evil in the false tree, the false cross preserves SELF and exalts SELF by avoiding at all costs any such thought of a death of self. But the true message of the cross demands the death of self WITH CHRIST on the cross.
Satan told Eve that she would be as God, and implied she could save herself. But God wanted man to have God's Life within, from the fruit of Life, and that requires self life to be set aside. Salvation by works is the message of the false tree and cross. Since we need to make ourselves as good as we can by acquiring all the necessary knowledge of good and evil so as to avoid the evil and do the good, death of self is the LAST THING we need to experience.
But self must die in order for true salvation to occur, and that salvation is not of works but only through the work God did through the death of the cross, that we find a powerful revelation in Jesus' response to the penitent thief's request to be remembered in the Kingdom. Jesus must have shocked the penitent thief! The thief probably considered any association with the Kingdom to perhaps occur years or eons later at some wonderful great by and by! But this Kingdom is so much based on God's work and not our own, that Jesus let the thief know that as soon as he dies with Christ on that cross, and their souls and spirits left their bodies, that the thief would indeed be in the Kingdom Paradise (Garden) of God THAT DAY!
Without the thief able to do one impressive deed for the Lord, as though works could save, the moment he died with Christ would give him entrance into the Kingdom!
AND SO IT IS TODAY!
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Great clarification. Now clarify where on one set of 3 crosses in one gospel both thieves mocked Jesus and in another gospel and another set of 3 crosses one thief mocked Jesus and one did not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
This is not an attempt to debate anything, but just a thought to share that I preached here last Sunday.
The cross is called a TREE in a few New Testament scriptures. Jesus was said to have hanged on a tree when He was crucified. And a thought came to me that the two crosses where we see the two thieves crucified on either side of the Lord show the two trees of the garden of Eden. The Tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and devil. And we know the enemy urged the woman towards the false tree while God willed they eat of the Tree of life. So one could say the message from the impenitent thief's cross stands as the message of the false tree and false cross, and the message portrayed by the penitent thief's cross stands as the true message of the cross of Jesus.
One could say we all have a cross, but it is only one of the two represented by the thieves.
So, here are some thoughts on the next post. What are your thoughts?
Great clarification. Now clarify where on one set of 3 crosses in one gospel both thieves mocked Jesus and in another gospel and another set of 3 crosses one thief mocked Jesus and one did not.
(But I'll tell you: he will not see any contradiction whatsoever. )
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Going to take alot of popcorn...lol Someone will have to think of a way to spin it so it's not a contradiction....Remember the bible is the infalliable word of God and God is not the author of Confusion...Thats why I have a hard time thinking that the men who wrote the bible were God inspired men.....
Going to take alot of popcorn...lol Someone will have to think of a way to spin it so it's not a contradiction....Remember the bible is the infalliable word of God and God is not the author of Confusion...Thats why I have a hard time thinking that the men who wrote the bible were God inspired men.....
Or maybe God is the author of confusion and the bible is still infallible. (It can't fail at confusing us ) JKJKJK
Great clarification. Now clarify where on one set of 3 crosses in one gospel both thieves mocked Jesus and in another gospel and another set of 3 crosses one thief mocked Jesus and one did not.
I've always thought of it as two accounts of the same situation by two different men. One recalls things one way while the other recalls things another... and both are true.
I've always thought that one Gospel writer recalls when both thieves mocked Jesus, the other remembers how one was repentant before Jesus gave up the ghost. In this we see that Jesus is merciful to all, even towards those who initially mocked and derided him.
)
) JKJKJK
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