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  #101  
Old 03-20-2012, 10:38 AM
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post
And that modification to the original premise is really why I was hesitant about following the logic all the way through. That is actually a different premise, and honestly one that I don't find an answer to in the Word of God.

When we begin to build doctrines and teachings from the Word, we have to be careful of the antithesis statement that doctrine is also making so that we can follow it all the way through. Where Bro. Jay stated earlier that someone has to ask, I don't see that in the Scriptures.

The principle that I see in Scripture is that if we do ask, it shall be given, if we do seek, we shall find, etc. But to push that to the conclusion that if nothing's ever asked for it won't be done is taking the Scriptures way beyond what they are saying. I think we have to take them at face value.... that asking makes a huge difference.

In the end, we all know that God has worked in many of our lives in situations we didn't even know we needed to ask for anything yet... kept back situations we weren't even aware of... so I can't see anything in the Word that says, healings may be withheld just because you didn't ask.
I do believe that there are times that prayers are answered before they are even asked.

Did not God say in Isaiah, "And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear." (Isa 65:24)

I realize that this is speaking of the Millineal Reign, but I have watched this fulfilled in my own life. God knew my need, and before I even was aware that I had it, He was opening the doors, and within seconds of my request, the answer was in my hands.

I believe that in the vast majority of cases there must be a request made to Him, although it does not need to take an hour to receive the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Matt View Post
Well...here's what I think. Faith isn't what it used to be. People don't believe like oldtimers used to. Where we have internet, some people television, so much technology and so much happening, oldtimers had nothing but church. They probably prayed a lot more, fasted a lot more and with less cheats, and read their Word more than we do now. That being said, I have personally seen miracles, signs, and wonders, and I have heard of miracles, signs, and wonders, from people who would have absolutely no reason to lie to me. They do still happen, just not as often, due to a lack of real, unrelenting faith.
I think that you have hit upon a major problem. I know of very many people who struggle with coming to the church half an hour before service for prayer, not because they have a legitimate issue (jobs mainly) but because they do not view it as important.

These then grumble about how nothing ever happens in church, no miracles are seen, prayers answered, or people saved (I am not commenting about anyone here that I am aware of).

Further, we have everything at our fingertips, and feel as if we need nothing. We are rich and increased with goods. A lack of food is not an issue, our medicines are the best in the world, and we are satisfied.

The saddest portion of this scenario is that we have forgotten the God upon whom we should be depending and thanking for our goods. Instead we through them in His face, and proclaim that we do not need His healing power, provision, and gracious care. Is it any wonder then that we are fixing to reap a terrible harvest?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafon View Post
Jesus said, "And ALL things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." ~ Matthew 21:22

It would seem to me that when one is taking heed to and obeying the things which John said that they MUST do in order to have "confidence" that God will hear and answer their prayer (yea, even those where healing is requested), then God has obligated Himself to respond accordingly.

So again I feel compelled to say ~ ALL of the emphasis rests with the petitioner: 1. We MUST ask in prayer; 2. We MUST believe (i.e., possess the "confidence" that because we are living righteously He will "hear" and grant our petition), and then; 3. We MUST receive it.

In the absence of any of these three essentials then it can hardly be said that we possess the "confidence" that God will "hear" our petition and grant it.
I agree with this totally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post
Well, I'll have to say I don't read that Scripture in I John quite as my brother does, and we will agree to disagree. I think to take the full context of the whole conversation that is going on in that Scripture, to say that one must be "free from sin, completely and totally" is proof texting a bit.

Don't get me wrong, the obedience, consecration, life, even consistency of the believer is important for presenting an environment for healings... however, it's not a guarantee. To me this are contributing factors, but the major one being the Will of God.
I agree with you as well. Sometimes it pleases God to allow a person to suffer for many years with an illness only to suddenly heal them without warning. Sometimes it can be inferred what His purpose was, and other times it takes a process of years before all is revealed if it is even then. This is why we do not place our faith in the miracles, but rather in the God who gives us the miracles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
OP2 taking Timmy's side (kinda)?





That was just funny.
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  #102  
Old 03-20-2012, 10:56 AM
Bro. Robbins Bro. Robbins is offline
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak View Post
I would love to see the doctor's statement after seeing the little girl you mention in this post.

My wife, is the director of a special needs day program, and would love to know that Downs had been healed. We have several Downs in our program, God is very evidently present at Coventry, but we have not seen a Downs healed. www.coventryreserve.org

We believe God will heal and restore all special needs, this life is so very short, they will all be complete and whole. Adversity in this life works as fire in the lives of those close to it, this life is the course each of us must walk.

God is not going to correct all wrongs, nor heal all sickness in this world, so to make healing here our only focus is misguided.

He could correct everything in this world NOW, but that is not the purpose of this life. Nor has He been interrupted, nor hindered from its (His purpose) accomplishment, no matter what moves we in our "freewill" do, He like the master chess player simply makes His next move to bring us all to "checkmate" with Him.
Just to make it clear... as I've tried before... I never said she had Down's, I've never heard the parents or anyone in the church say that specifically for sure. I said she "looked like she has Downs", and not knowing the family that close, I just don't want to present something that isn't exactly true.

I do know, that little girl looked like she had Downs or some type of disfunctional type issue, and the drooping of her face, eyes, and mannerisms have all changed now and she looks as "normal" as can be in her face and mannerisms.

All they've ever said from the pulpit is mental disfunction....
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  #103  
Old 03-20-2012, 11:49 AM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

It should be noted that Paul suffered what is said to be vision problems for the rest of his life, and was not healed in Scripture. More notably, this story is included in Scripture for a witness. You could hardly question his faith, and yet he was not healed.
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  #104  
Old 03-20-2012, 11:51 AM
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Michael Phelps Michael Phelps is offline
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

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Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
It should be noted that Paul suffered what is said to be vision problems for the rest of his life, and was not healed in Scripture. More notably, this story is included in Scripture for a witness. You could hardly question his faith, and yet he was not healed.
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  #105  
Old 03-20-2012, 11:53 AM
OldPathsII OldPathsII is offline
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
OP2 taking Timmy's side (kinda)?








I wonder which of these three will happen first?

I'm not taking Timmy's side but right now I'd say he's way ahead on points and about to score a TKO.
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  #106  
Old 03-20-2012, 11:54 AM
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
It should be noted that Paul suffered what is said to be vision problems for the rest of his life, and was not healed in Scripture. More notably, this story is included in Scripture for a witness. You could hardly question his faith, and yet he was not healed.

Which I would claim supports my position of being willing to suffer.
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  #107  
Old 03-20-2012, 12:01 PM
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

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Originally Posted by OldPathsII View Post


I wonder which of these three will happen first?

I'm not taking Timmy's side but right now I'd say he's way ahead on points and about to score a TKO.
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  #108  
Old 03-20-2012, 12:04 PM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Which I would claim supports my position of being willing to suffer.
That position was about how to see healings. "The key to receiving a healing or miracle is to be willing to suffer illness, injury, death, deprivation, uncertainty, and rely totally on God to see you out." It didn't work for Paul. Does it work for anyone? Essentially, what your "position" says is that if you want something to happen, don't want it to happen! Be willing to suffer, if you want your suffering to stop.
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  #109  
Old 03-20-2012, 12:07 PM
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Michael Phelps Michael Phelps is offline
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

I have real issue with the mindset that says "If you are not healed, you are not believing enough".

This is an insult to every Christian who has died an early death, and it reeks of a "salvation/answered prayer by WORKS".
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  #110  
Old 03-20-2012, 12:09 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Why don't we see healings?

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Originally Posted by Michael Phelps View Post
I have real issue with the mindset that says "If you are not healed, you are not believing enough".

This is an insult to every Christian who has died an early death, and it reeks of a "salvation/answered prayer by WORKS".
What is even worse than THAT is when someone makes a crack about you or someone you know not being healed, or even being killed, because there must be some sin in their life.

My wife was 20 or 21 and attending a AoG college in Springfield, MO when her mother died. They gave her a couple of days off for the funeral and to visit then was expected back to class bright and early. They didn't even acknowledge that there MAY be SOME emotional issues to deal with because she had PRAYED, which meant God provided all the comfort she needed. Then to make matters worse one of the admin staff openly wondered about what sin may be in her mother life to have this happen (with Gail and other faculty present in the deans office). Gail shouted "Go to hell!" and walked out. Of course they suspended her for such gross insubordination to "Gods anointed" which hardly mattered because she had literally walked out of the office AND the school permanently with no intent to ever return.

Last edited by RandyWayne; 03-20-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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