Just Typing Truth ...

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Everyone is equally important!

in God's eyes yes

but for relationships and ministry:
God
Spouse
Children
Parents
Church Family
Rest of the World

[jediwill83]

Church has become a spiritual hyperbaric chamber, artificially created to try and provide a concentrated atmosphere to make up for our lack of spirituality and relationship with God throughout the week.

[BrainWashed]

Originally Posted by n david

Have you ever been in a ministry position? Oh right, no, you like to go on forums and post threads bashing your Pastor over tithes and comments he's made. You'd rather complain and gossip than actually do something.

Lol…..Lets get something straight. Firstly, how could you possible know whether I’m in a ministry position? Even though my pastor told me I am, I couldn’t careless. That’s was people seek these days, titles and accolades. Everything that I’ve spoken about here in regard to tithing, I’ve spoken to my pastor about. You pretend I’m one of these little girls that speaks behind people’s back.
I’m not gossiping, but rather dialoging and I have done something about the things I'm mentioning. I thought that’s what these forums were about, discussing matters.

Originally Posted by n david

did I say their unsaved devils? All I stated was they live for God on Sunday and don't mention Him during the week. That, sadly, describes a LOT of homes today. They're just too occupied with their lives to fulfill their God-given roles.

No, but it has the same reference point. If parents can’t teach their children how to maintain a spiritual relationship, then that’s where youth ministers step in and help. However, there are a lot of lazy youth ministers, and possibly you fell into that category, whom always makes up excuses. You then go on to say that, "sadly, describes a LOT of homes today. They're just too occupied with their lives to fulfill their God-given roles.”

Okay, so what what are you doing about? Since you’re no longer a youth minister, is it no longer your problem? If it’s no longer your problem, was it then just a duty of the role you fulfilled? And if it was just a duty, it must have never been in your heart to help if you’ve ceased to help the youth now that you don't hold that position.

Originally Posted by n david

dumb, you just misunderstood the analogy.
I don't know. I guess I could create threads and posts, bashing different ministers for what I consider to be their faults. That seems like it's pretty easy to do.

I didn’t misunderstand it at all. You just don’t know how to compose proper examples. As I said above, they both have the same reference point. I create threads to discuss things I’ve seen. It’s not like I’m making things up. I’m sorry David, but I’ve never needed smoke machines and colored lights for God to speak through me, nor will I ever need them.

[n david]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Lol…..Lets get something straight. Firstly, how could you possible know whether I’m in a ministry position? Even though my pastor told me I am, I couldn’t careless. That’s was people seek these days, titles and accolades. Everything that I’ve spoken about here in regard to tithing, I’ve spoken to my pastor about. You pretend I’m one of these little girls that speaks behind people’s back.
I’m not gossiping, but rather dialoging and I have done something about the things I'm mentioning. I thought that’s what these forums were about, discussing matters.

So your pastor says you're in a ministry position, and you trash him on this forum? With saints like you ... ! What ministry position are you in? I know you could care less about the titles and such, but humor me.

Funny, you call it "dialoging." Other ministers like to gossip by asking for prayer for the individual about whom they're spilling the beans. Also, "discussing matters" and bashing Pastors and youth ministers are two very different things.

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

No, but it has the same reference point. If parents can’t teach their children how to maintain a spiritual relationship, then that’s where youth ministers step in and help. However, there are a lot of lazy youth ministers, and possibly you fell into that category, whom always makes up excuses. You then go on to say that, "sadly, describes a LOT of homes today. They're just too occupied with their lives to fulfill their God-given roles.”

Made my head hurt, trying to read that paragraph.

No, I wasn't a lazy youth minister. I worked a full time job and used every spare moment of my "free" time in prayer, study and preparation for the next service or class. I practically lived in the church. And when I was in youth ministry, the fellow youth ministers I knew weren't lazy either. You have a misconception of what a youth minister's role is. A youth minister is not the primary minister for the teenager - that is the role of the father. A youth minister isn't even the secondary minister, that is the Pastor. A youth minister is there to encourage and reaffirm what has already been taught in the home and from the pulpit.

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Okay, so what what are you doing about? Since you’re no longer a youth minister, is it no longer your problem? If it’s no longer your problem, was it then just a duty of the role you fulfilled? And if it was just a duty, it must have never been in your heart to help if you’ve ceased to help the youth now that you don't hold that position.

Ignorance is blissful for you, isn't it?

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

I didn’t misunderstand it at all. You just don’t know how to compose proper examples. As I said above, they both have the same reference point. I create threads to discuss things I’ve seen. It’s not like I’m making things up. I’m sorry David, but I’ve never needed smoke machines and colored lights for God to speak through me, nor will I ever need them.

Glad you've got it all together! As you posted in another thread - Wish there were more like you!

[Aquila]

I don't know if what I have to contribute to this thread will apply or not. But I'll share it.

I remember a few years ago when I was attending a UPCI church the focus was on our "Apostolic Identity". Sermons were focused on the rejection of "seeker sensitive", the "relevant movement", etc. It was basically a push to fall in love with holding the traditional Apostolic standards and patterns of worship.

What troubled me was... shouldn't we seek our "identity" in Jesus? Shouldn't HE be our model and example regardless of context? It seemed like they were so caught up with being "Apostolic" that I felt like Jesus would be sitting in the back watching the clock and waiting for the service to be over. It was all about "us"... not about "Him".

I was born again at 13 years old. That was 28 years ago. With every twist and turn my life has taken (some for the better and some for the worse) I've never lost my faith in Jesus. Even when I was "backslidden" I could not deny that I felt Him watching over me always. I couldn't run far enough to get away. I couldn't drink anything strong enough to numb me from feeling Him. I couldn't find a sin that would make Him just leave me alone... and I tried quite a few really bad ones (and a couple really good ones ). It was as though if I decided to dive head first into Hell... He'd already be there waiting on me before I landed. After I became so worn out and battered from my own battle to escape... I just had to surrender. After it all I asked "Why?" I felt the impression of the Spirit say, "Because I love you." It was over. He won the war.

Somewhere I found a relationship with Him that I couldn't shake even after I tried. At 13 years old, I was born again of the water and Spirit. I couldn't tell you much about doctrine. In fact, I didn't even known what made Apostolics different from other Christians beyond the obvious fact that we dressed funny and liked to run and dance in church. And honestly, I didn't even know that I should care... or that there was even a debate. Being Apostolic was "okay", but it wasn't anything I cared much about or thought was all that important. I can't describe it any other way than to say...

I simply fell in love with Jesus.

He became my everything. I couldn't get enough prayer time, I couldn't read enough of my Bible. I wanted to be in church every time the doors were open. Everywhere I went, the name of Jesus was sure to be part of my conversation with whoever I was talking to. Was I a perfect kid? Nope. I'm still not. But I knew He was perfect. I knew that He loved me. And as a result, I loved Him more than anything. And whenever I sinned...it broke my heart. It still does. And every time He forgave me, I felt my trust in Him and my love for Him grow. And even today, every time He forgives me, my love and trust grows. I could ramble forever on this, so I'll try to cut it short.

I fell in love with Jesus.

Could it be that falling in love with being Apostolic... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with various standards or styles... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with the church... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with doctrine... isn't enough?
And dare I say it... but... could it be that falling in love with your pastor or youth leaders... isn't enough?

When I see kids drift... I can't help but wonder... do they love Him? I mean, do they really, really, LOVE Him?

If I were to see this in my son as he grew older, the only real advice I'd have for him is... fall in love with Jesus... and everything else will work itself out.

Maybe we need a fresh baptism of the reality of Jesus, a reality we can fall in love with all over again.

Maybe I'm way out there. Please excuse me if I'm just rambling silliness.

[Amanah]

Aquila, there is something to what you say. I will only add one thing. If we love Him we will keep His Word.

[n david]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Okay, so what what are you doing about? Since you’re no longer a youth minister, is it no longer your problem? If it’s no longer your problem, was it then just a duty of the role you fulfilled? And if it was just a duty, it must have never been in your heart to help if you’ve ceased to help the youth now that you don't hold that position.

Wow, a lot of assumptions and accusations being made here. smh I'm noticing a trend with you.

I am not in the role of youth minister anymore. I am currently helping a couple establish a church. I have known this family for many years and I do my best in whatever I am asked or feel led to do.

"Is it no longer your problem?" This is the point at which your accusations tumbled into the abyss. From here you created more accusations, all of which are false.

1) I would never consider ministry, nor any aspect of ministry, a "problem." It was an honor to be involved in youth ministry.

2) I never considered it a "duty" or a "role" of which I was obligated to fulfill. Being unpaid, it wasn't for the money either. In fact, I spent a lot of money as a youth minister.

3) As stated previously, I am currently helping to establish a church. If there is a need, and if the Lord wills, I will be happy to help out. Your accusation that "it must have never been in your heart to help if you've ceased to help the youth now that you don't hold that position" is terribly wrong.

You should really consider establishing a new church. I would imagine it would be the PERFECT church, because you would be the PERFECT pastor.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I fell in love with Jesus.

Could it be that falling in love with being Apostolic... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with various standards or styles... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with the church... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with doctrine... isn't enough?
And dare I say it... but... could it be that falling in love with your pastor or youth leaders... isn't enough?

When I see kids drift... I can't help but wonder... do they love Him? I mean, do they really, really, LOVE Him?

If I were to see this in my son as he grew older, the only real advice I'd have for him is... fall in love with Jesus... and everything else will work itself out.

Maybe we need a fresh baptism of the reality of Jesus, a reality we can fall in love with all over again.

This is great!

This sounds like a sermon I heard from Rev. Cody Marks titled "Heart Condition." You can preach doctrines and convictions, standards and separation until you're blue in the face. But if the heart isn't changed, it won't matter.

Also listened to another sermon by Rev. Scott Graham, in which he mentioned how sermons many times aim for the heart, but only hit the ears.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Aquila, there is something to what you say. I will only add one thing. If we love Him we will keep His Word.

I want to use this as an opportunity to point something out. It's not personal in any way, because I think we've all done it.

Notice... we always gotta add that bucket of cold water, don't we?

And when we do that, we change the subject from Jesus to us and our obedience. Then it calls to question, "What does keeping His Word mean?" Then we get five dozen interpretations of what it means, with 15 different views on standards, two Sabbatarian admonishments, and a head covering in a pear tree.

And we're in chains again.

If we REALLY fall in love with Him. We don't need to be reminded that sin is sin... and if lose our way and we sin... we know we need to run back into His arms. That's the nature of love.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Aquila, there is something to what you say. I will only add one thing. If we love Him we will keep His Word.

So, let's follow the flow you created here. You said quite well that if we love Him, "we will keep His Word".

What specifically does that mean?

Because without definition, it's just a very general statement that could mean... anything.