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  #41  
Old 03-07-2018, 10:57 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
The Greek reads much the same as it does in English. It provides no additional insight.

μιᾶς γυναικὸς ἄνδρα

"faithful to his wife" NIV

"the husband of one wife" is how many other translations translate it.

I really don't think it has anything to do with divorce.
If a guy is divorced, is he the husband of one wife?

Not debating, just trying to determine your sense of the passage. What do you think it refers to? How would a Judean convert understand him? How would a Greek convert understand him? And can he own an AR-15?

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  #42  
Old 03-07-2018, 11:04 AM
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If a guy is divorced, is he the husband of one wife?

Not debating, just trying to determine your sense of the passage. What do you think it refers to? How would a Judean convert understand him? How would a Greek convert understand him? And can he own an AR-15?

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  #43  
Old 03-07-2018, 11:54 AM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is online now
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Re: The Divorcee:

To be honest, I'm not sure. Maybe it was a ban on polygamy. It may mean nothing more than "be a family man".

Depending on how one interprets the NT, one could argue a man must be married and have kids before becoming a deacon.

In this case, Jesus Christ himself would not be qualified to be a deacon since he was not married nor did he have kids.

Other than a passing reference to the mother in law of Peter, the marital status of the 12 is not even taken up in the NT. Nor is there hard evidence to determine if Paul was married or not.

The silence about the apostles stands in sharp contrast to the requirement for marriage and kids in First Timothy, if that is what Paul has in mind.
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  #44  
Old 03-07-2018, 12:01 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
To be honest, I'm not sure. Maybe it was a ban on polygamy. It may mean nothing more than "be a family man".

Depending on how one interprets the NT, one could argue a man must be married and have kids before becoming a deacon.

In this case, Jesus Christ himself would not be qualified to be a deacon since he was not married nor did he have kids.

Other than a passing reference to the mother in law of Peter, the marital status of the 12 is not even taken up in the NT. Nor is there hard evidence to determine if Paul was married or not.

The silence about the apostles stands in sharp contrast to the requirement for marriage and kids in First Timothy, if that is what Paul has in mind.
Christ is unique, so I don't think church requirements can be applied to him. Would it be safe to assume the apostles, as elders, met the requirements they established for their successors? That the requirements they set were drawn in large measure from their own qualifications?

Or, could it be that they (the apostles) were established irrespective of their personal qualifications, but were charged with establishing personal qualifications for succeeding generations? Since Jesus was no longer personally appointing leadership in a direct visible way, as He was during His earthly ministry?
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  #45  
Old 03-07-2018, 12:14 PM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If a guy is divorced, is he the husband of one wife?

Not debating, just trying to determine your sense of the passage. What do you think it refers to? How would a Judean convert understand him? How would a Greek convert understand him? And can he own an AR-15?

Assuming the divorce is post conversion and the guy is not already ordained -

Wife alive and guy NOT remarried - husband of 1 wife --> qualified

Wife alive and guy IS remarried - husband of 2 wives --> disqualified

Wife dead and guy NOT remarried - not a husband --> ???

Wife dead and guy IS remarried - husband of 1 wife --> qualified

If the divorce is pre conversion - it is of no effect --> qualified

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  #46  
Old 03-07-2018, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
Assuming the divorce is post conversion and the guy is not already ordained -

Wife alive and guy NOT remarried - husband of 1 wife --> qualified

Wife alive and guy IS remarried - husband of 2 wives --> disqualified

Wife dead and guy NOT remarried - not a husband --> ???

Wife dead and guy IS remarried - husband of 1 wife --> qualified

If the divorce is pre conversion - it is of no effect --> qualified

What if his divorce was while he was backslid, and then he repented. Can he remarry, will it be of no consequence?

What if his original marriage was post conversion, but while backslid, and it was outside the faith, and in repenting he separated and divorced, where does he stand now?
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  #47  
Old 03-07-2018, 12:48 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
To be honest, I'm not sure. Maybe it was a ban on polygamy. It may mean nothing more than "be a family man".

Depending on how one interprets the NT, one could argue a man must be married and have kids before becoming a deacon.

In this case, Jesus Christ himself would not be qualified to be a deacon since he was not married nor did he have kids.

Other than a passing reference to the mother in law of Peter, the marital status of the 12 is not even taken up in the NT. Nor is there hard evidence to determine if Paul was married or not.

The silence about the apostles stands in sharp contrast to the requirement for marriage and kids in First Timothy, if that is what Paul has in mind.
You know, I was thinking. There is also the possibility that we don't know entirely what the issue was that Paul was addressing in his letters to Timothy. Maybe these standards only relate to a given circumstance.

Thoughts?
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  #48  
Old 03-07-2018, 12:49 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Christ is unique, so I don't think church requirements can be applied to him. Would it be safe to assume the apostles, as elders, met the requirements they established for their successors? That the requirements they set were drawn in large measure from their own qualifications?

Or, could it be that they (the apostles) were established irrespective of their personal qualifications, but were charged with establishing personal qualifications for succeeding generations? Since Jesus was no longer personally appointing leadership in a direct visible way, as He was during His earthly ministry?
Peter had the keys, and one dimension of binding and loosing involves setting standards in the church.
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  #49  
Old 03-07-2018, 12:55 PM
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Re: The Divorcee:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
What if his divorce was while he was backslid, and then he repented. Can he remarry, will it be of no consequence?

What if his original marriage was post conversion, but while backslid, and it was outside the faith, and in repenting he separated and divorced, where does he stand now?
I think the prohibition on remarried divorcees kinda settles all these circumstantial questions that might be endless in number.

As a divorcee... I'm cool with it. I'm actually comfortable knowing God can't call me into the pastoral ministry. You guys should be glad for that too!
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  #50  
Old 03-07-2018, 01:24 PM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is online now
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Re: The Divorcee:

It is very possible Paul had an issue in mind we are not aware of.

He mentions the same qualification twice. Here is the second mention:

A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well.

Why did Paul repeat this qualification twice ? He did not do so for other qualifications.

If he only meant faithfulness in family, then divorce and remarriage are not part of the qualifications. If Paul felt divorce was a disqualified, he could have simply said as much.
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