Apostolics of Grant Parish/ Br. Lane Creech

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I've never really understood why one man would be so caught up in another man's attire. Or that other man's wife's attire. Just saying.

I've also never understood why people feel the need to put their whole life on display on an NSA-CIA funded social media data collection site?

When I first read it I flashed back to Harriet Olsen from Little House on the Prarie going,"GASP!!!!! NELLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSS!!!!!"

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

There has been much ado about standards and the pastors that set those standards and how much they differ from one church to another. Nicodemus68 posted about it.

I’m convinced that the reason it is such a problem is that the pastor really has no place to set standards for each individual home. The man of the house is supposed to have authority after Jesus. Not the pastor. It’s not my business what another mans wife is wearing or not. Or whether his wife’s or daughters clothes are too tight, or short, or whether they are red, blue, or green. It’s not the pastor’s either.

It is the place of the husband/father/patriarch of the family. He alone, under Jesus, has authority or responsibility to say where standards should be set in his home.

At least that’s what the Bible says.

So, if there is no husband/father/patriarch or if they are not setting standards, who should step in?
Maybe the pastor?

Also, why did Paul exert authority in this area?
Was he acting as a pastor?
Or did he overstep his role?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

So, if there is no husband/father/patriarch or if they are not setting standards, who should step in?
Maybe the pastor?

Also, why did Paul exert authority in this area?
Was he acting as a pastor?
Or did he overstep his role?

Paul was really clear. Let me quote Paul.

[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Paul never said that the pastor had authority over the woman. He did, in fact state unequivocally that the man had that authority.

Here he says it again, just in case there is room for misunderstanding.

Eph.5

[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Paul says here that the husband is the head of the wife, even (or like, if you prefer) Jesus is the head of the church. So IF Jesus is head of the church (in your opinion) just as much, the husband is head of the wife.

Do you agree with this scripture? Or no?

Something is seriously wrong when a man cedes his authority to a pastor, or when a pastor wants him to.

As for the hypothetical question of what happens when a woman is without a husband or a father, there is scripture for that as well. If there is no man around, the church should take care of her. She is a widow or an orphan. If she needs instruction, that is the role of the elder women. Of course if she needs her grass mowed, the pastor would be perfectly suited (as a minister or servant) to do that for her.

Here is a relevant passage.

Tit.2

[3] The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
[4] That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Do you see that portion that says the pastor should tell them how to dress? I don’t either.

As for Paul’s role in writing the epistles, he was an author. He was moved on by the Holy Ghost to write letters to the churches. He was not merely acting as a pastor. He wrote more books of the Bible than any other man. Pastors aren’t to add to the Bible, nor diminish ought from it. So they are different from Paul.

Does this answer your questions?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Paul was really clear. Let me quote Paul.

[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Paul never said that the pastor had authority over the woman. He did, in fact state unequivocally that the man had that authority.

Here he says it again, just in case there is room for misunderstanding.

Eph.5

[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Paul says here that the husband is the head of the wife, even (or like, if you prefer) Jesus is the head of the church. So IF Jesus is head of the church (in your opinion) just as much, the husband is head of the wife.

Do you agree with this scripture? Or no?

Something is seriously wrong when a man cedes his authority to a pastor, or when a pastor wants him to.

As for the hypothetical question of what happens when a woman is without a husband or a father, there is scripture for that as well. If there is no man around, the church should take care of her. She is a widow or an orphan. If she needs instruction, that is the role of the elder women. Of course if she needs her grass mowed, the pastor would be perfectly suited (as a minister or servant) to do that for her.

Here is a relevant passage.

Tit.2

[3] The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
[4] That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Do you see that portion that says the pastor should tell them how to dress? I don’t either.

As for Paul’s role in writing the epistles, he was an author. He was moved on by the Holy Ghost to write letters to the churches. He was not merely acting as a pastor. He wrote more books of the Bible than any other man. Pastors aren’t to add to the Bible, nor diminish ought from it. So they are different from Paul.

Does this answer your questions?

Right on!

I was taught early on in my Christian conversion; if there is a woman in the church whose husband is not in church, the Pastor is the authority over her. How wrong that is! The husband is the authority in his home, not the Pastor.

When a Pastor places himself in the position to be the authority over another man's wife, IMO, it sets him on a road of/to adultery.

I remember a Pastor talking to another Pastor's wife. And he told her point-blank, I am still your authority! A couple of years later, the whole church split, adultery ran through that church like water off a ducks back.

You got it right; if we have single women in the church, allow the older women to teach the younger women. Allow the Pastor's wife to work in those situations.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Paul was really clear. Let me quote Paul.

[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Paul never said that the pastor had authority over the woman. He did, in fact state unequivocally that the man had that authority.

Here he says it again, just in case there is room for misunderstanding.

Eph.5

[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Paul says here that the husband is the head of the wife, even (or like, if you prefer) Jesus is the head of the church. So IF Jesus is head of the church (in your opinion) just as much, the husband is head of the wife.

Do you agree with this scripture? Or no?

Something is seriously wrong when a man cedes his authority to a pastor, or when a pastor wants him to.

As for the hypothetical question of what happens when a woman is without a husband or a father, there is scripture for that as well. If there is no man around, the church should take care of her. She is a widow or an orphan. If she needs instruction, that is the role of the elder women. Of course if she needs her grass mowed, the pastor would be perfectly suited (as a minister or servant) to do that for her.

Here is a relevant passage.

Tit.2

[3] The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
[4] That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Do you see that portion that says the pastor should tell them how to dress? I don’t either.

As for Paul’s role in writing the epistles, he was an author. He was moved on by the Holy Ghost to write letters to the churches. He was not merely acting as a pastor. He wrote more books of the Bible than any other man. Pastors aren’t to add to the Bible, nor diminish ought from it. So they are different from Paul.

Does this answer your questions?

Not really.
My questions were more rhetorical than actual.
I just find it interesting whenever someone wants to "rail" against pastors being able to set a dress expectation for the local assembly.
And I would say that Paul was acting in a pastoral fashion when he wrote his epistles.
I have seen congregations where there is no leadership on this issue and it almost always winds up as a "lowest common denominator" kind of dress.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Not really.
My questions were more rhetorical than actual.
I just find it interesting whenever someone wants to "rail" against pastors being able to set a dress expectation for the local assembly.
And I would say that Paul was acting in a pastoral fashion when he wrote his epistles.
I have seen congregations where there is no leadership on this issue and it almost always winds up as a "lowest common denominator" kind of dress.

I’m not suggesting no leader. Read my post again. I said it is the father/husband/patriarch that should set the standard for his house.

And I find it interesting that you bring up “railing against the pastor”. Did I rail against the pastor?

I quoted scripture. I didn’t make it up. If you have scripture, I invite you to quote it. I did quote scripture, didn’t I?

And it was relevant. Wasn’t it?

I understand that it didn’t fit with your doctrine. I invite you to change your doctrine. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I’m not suggesting no leader. Read my post again. I said it is the father/husband/patriarch that should set the standard for his house.

And I find it interesting that you bring up “railing against the pastor”. Did I rail against the pastor?

I quoted scripture. I didn’t make it up. If you have scripture, I invite you to quote it. I did quote scripture, didn’t I?

And it was relevant. Wasn’t it?

I understand that it didn’t fit with your doctrine. I invite you to change your doctrine. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?

tm - Here is my take on your doctrine.
Pastors cannot set dress standards.
Is this correct?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

tm - Here is my take on your doctrine.
Pastors cannot set dress standards.
Is this correct?

My doctrine is that they have no authority to tell my wife or children what to wear. That’s my responsibility. If they feel inclined to do so, they should go to the man of the house.

I realize that they do often take it upon themselves to tell the congregation what to wear, or not wear. This sometimes includes colors, lengths of clothing etc.. They have no biblical authority to do so. They are out of place when they do.

The pastor’s authority does not extend to my family. I think the scripture is plain about headship.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

My doctrine is that they have no authority to tell my wife or children what to wear. That’s my responsibility. If they feel inclined to do so, they should go to the man of the house.

I realize that they do often take it upon themselves to tell the congregation what to wear, or not wear. This sometimes includes colors, lengths of clothing etc.. They have no biblical authority to do so. They are out of place when they do.

The pastor’s authority does not extend to my family. I think the scripture is plain about headship.

I agree to a certain extent.
However, I do believe that a pastor has the responsibility to set "expectations" for the local congregation.
I also see a danger in your viewpoint.
Because if you are not in unity with your pastor or fellow brethren you risk sowing seeds of confusion.

[JD_1977]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I thought Unregistered was him?

nope...wasn’t even aware anyone knew I existed on here

Originally Posted by CC1

CC1 does not use any other screen name than CC1. Unless I am logged in as Admin.

I’m glad that you know you aren’t me

Sorry to bump this...just struck me funny