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  #41  
Old 03-07-2020, 05:34 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
We can even ask what consummates a marriage?

I know a preacher that believes it’s the physical act between a male and female.

Or is it the covenant between the male and female that consummates the marriage?
CONSUMMATE, verb transitive [Latin See Sum.] To end; to finish by completing what was intended; to perfect; to bring or carry to the utmost point or degree.

He had a mind to consummate the happiness of the day.

The consummation of a marriage is the end or completion of the act of marriage. (Act, not state or condition. The act is a short term event, the condition is a long term status resulting from the act.) Consummation of a marriage does not initiate the marrying but rather completes or finalizes it.

A marriage involves (usually) 5 parties: the groom, the bride, the groom's parents, the bride's parents, and God. The community also has an interest (hence the custom of witnesses) but additional witnesses are not always required.

There must be an intention to marry, the parties involved agree that what is happening is a marriage.

There is a covenant HOWEVER it need not be verbalised or written. Marriage is itself a covenant or agreement, so the basic "vows" are assumed and included even if not verbalised. But especially nowadays it is highly advisable that the covenant be publicly affirmed, which is to say the bride and groom publicly affirm their knowledge and acceptance of the terms of the marriage covenant.

There is a consummation, the two must be joined together not merely covenantally but physically as well. If a marriage is entered into, the final step in the ACT of marriage would be "and they two shall be one flesh". If that does not happen then the marriage (the act of marrying) has not been completed. This does NOT mean the marriage does not exist, though, because as soon as a betrothal is started the man and woman are reckoned as bound (although the bond has not been completed, and thus under certain circumstances I believe may be cancelled).

Marriage has been practically destroyed in western society over the last 100 years. The destruction has been going long before any of us here were born though. It began with removing parental consent, then decriminalizing adultery and abandonment, then easing requirements for divorces, then no fault divorce, the introduction of welfare for single mothers and the bias against fathers in so called "family courts", the relentless propaganda against traditional marriage by the government, recognition of "civil unions", "gay marriage", etc etc.

As a result, MANY Christians are embroiled in faulty, bad, or even unlawful marriages. It's a complete mess with FAR reaching long term effects and ramifications for both the church and society in general. At this point the only solution I see as viable is for the church to re-herald the WORD OF GOD on the subject and to teach what the Scriptural pattern is, and essentially excommunicate anyone who refuses to follow the Word. At least for any and all future marriages going forward. This is basically "how it used to be" anyway, and it worked for some 3500 years at least. Not that everyone behaved properly, but all disobedience was considered an aberration, rather than the norm as it is today.
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  #42  
Old 03-07-2020, 09:20 PM
hometown guy hometown guy is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
We can even ask what consummates a marriage?

I know a preacher that believes it’s the physical act between a male and female.

Or is it the covenant between the male and female that consummates the marriage?
Sounds like Stonekings teachings lol
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  #43  
Old 03-07-2020, 10:22 PM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
We can even ask what consummates a marriage?

I know a preacher that believes it’s the physical act between a male and female.

Or is it the covenant between the male and female that consummates the marriage?
The act makes you one body with the harlot but thats not a valid marriage
Otherwise all fornicators could stay together.
"Shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh".
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  #44  
Old 03-08-2020, 06:39 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by hometown guy View Post
Sounds like Stonekings teachings lol
I wasn’t aware of Stoneking preaching that. But nothing surprises me anymore.

Actually the basis for this preachers marriage doctrine is, if you come to God with a 2nd, 3rd etc... marriage the person your with is NOT your spouse! Acts 2:38 experience or not, the person you married the first time is your real spouse. Of course if that first husband or wife is still alive, nothing breaks the covenant.
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  #45  
Old 03-08-2020, 02:59 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I wasn’t aware of Stoneking preaching that. But nothing surprises me anymore.

Actually the basis for this preachers marriage doctrine is, if you come to God with a 2nd, 3rd etc... marriage the person your with is NOT your spouse! Acts 2:38 experience or not, the person you married the first time is your real spouse. Of course if that first husband or wife is still alive, nothing breaks the covenant.
So getting saved doesn’t remit past divorces? Cool.
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  #46  
Old 03-08-2020, 07:50 PM
consapente89 consapente89 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I wasn’t aware of Stoneking preaching that. But nothing surprises me anymore.

Actually the basis for this preachers marriage doctrine is, if you come to God with a 2nd, 3rd etc... marriage the person your with is NOT your spouse! Acts 2:38 experience or not, the person you married the first time is your real spouse. Of course if that first husband or wife is still alive, nothing breaks the covenant.
Doesn’t seem consistent with what Paul taught.
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  #47  
Old 03-08-2020, 11:29 PM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
So getting saved doesn’t remit past divorces? Cool.
Getting saved if repent.
If i am in fornication and repent i must leave the unlawful relationship.
If i robe a bank i must stop stealing! And many cases i gave ti fux some things. Fir example i can't continue live by the money which i robe.
The same applies to adultery. It can be forgiven if there is repentance, like any other sin. I must go and sin no more.
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  #48  
Old 03-09-2020, 12:19 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
Getting saved if repent.
If i am in fornication and repent i must leave the unlawful relationship.
If i robe a bank i must stop stealing! And many cases i gave ti fux some things. Fir example i can't continue live by the money which i robe.
The same applies to adultery. It can be forgiven if there is repentance, like any other sin. I must go and sin no more.
Exactly what he says. What’s sinful about the first marriage? Why would the gentleman need to repent for his 1st marriage, rather he should be repenting of his adultery with his current “wife”. Of he continues in the current relationship, he will be constantly in sin because he has not withdrawn himself from that relationship.
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  #49  
Old 03-09-2020, 12:48 AM
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good samaritan good samaritan is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

The Bible model for marriage is one wife for life. Divorce is only permissible for the act of fornication. For those who have already been remarried, it will be between them and God. Although, there is no biblical precedent of someone abandoning a later marriage in order to make restitution for a past divorce. We shouldn’t allow members of our assemblies to divorce or remarry without rebuke and consequences. Saints should be held at the biblical standard. Sinners on the other hand, don’t have the Spirit of God directing them, but must obey the Holy Ghost from the moment of their conversion and turn from their sinning.
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  #50  
Old 03-09-2020, 01:42 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
The Bible model for marriage is one wife for life. Divorce is only permissible for the act of fornication. For those who have already been remarried, it will be between them and God. Although, there is no biblical precedent of someone abandoning a later marriage in order to make restitution for a past divorce. We shouldn’t allow members of our assemblies to divorce or remarry without rebuke and consequences. Saints should be held at the biblical standard. Sinners on the other hand, don’t have the Spirit of God directing them, but must obey the Holy Ghost from the moment of their conversion and turn from their sinning.
Fornication happens to unmarried
He didn't say for the cause of adultery but fornication.
Adultery was not just a reason for divorce but to be stoned to death.
So the only reason was if when he married found his wife non Virgin . That's means she fornicates before the marriage and so marriage was not valid (like Joseph wanted to do with Mary when he learned she was pregnant).
Don't forget this cause if fornication was written only in Matthew and was an answer to a question asked by Jews under the law.

Of course today the only reason to put aside a woman (you see? Never uses the word divorce) is if there is any fornication. Thats is every unlawful relationship.
For example the relationship which had the Corinthian man with his Mother in law was described as Fornication and the only cure is repent and brake the unlawful relationship.
Actually Paul said that Marriage is to be in order to avoid Fornication. we avoid fornication (unmarried, unlawful relationship) with Marriage we don't avoid marriage with fornication
Amen.
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